Injured tail? New owner, please help

isabelly · Mar 22, 2015

Hi everyone, I got my leo Isabela a few days ago and she seemed to be doing fine with adjusting. I have a 20L tank, UTH on the right side with 3 hides (warm/dry, moist in the middle, and cool/dry.)

My local reptile supplier only had giant mealworms, so I got those for her as feeders for now. She ate a couple of them tonight, but I noticed that a couple escaped her bowl, and when she came out of her dry warm hide the end of her tail was red. I have her UTH thermostat set for 91 F, but I took the temps of her dry warm hide with my temp gun after noticing her tail and it was in the high 90's/100's! The probe reading is at 84, but the temp gun is reading up to 101. She went over to the cool side of her tank, but I'm worried that she either was bitten by a feeder or burned her tail. I'm trying to look up reptile vets in SoCal in case I need to take her in since the end of her tail looks injured. If anyone has any ideas of what might have happened/what I should do, please let me know. I removed all feeders from her tank and lowered the set temp of her UTH to 85 for now. I don't know if any vets would be open on Sunday but I'm trying to look up one to take her to if need be.

indyana · Mar 22, 2015

I would absolutely suggest getting her to a vet. It does appear to be either a constriction (from stuck shed or having tail caught under a hide) or a burn. Given the way the red is creeping up her tail, she may need to have the tip amputated, but only a vet can determine that for certain.

For the thermostat probe, it helps if you can find the "hot spot" on the UTH using your temp gun and then fix the probe right over that. Every UTH seems to have areas that get the hottest.

isabelly · Mar 22, 2015

Thank you. Was tough finding a reptile specialist open today but I brought her in and she has antibiotics + topical ointment for her tail. The vet didn't want to amputate in case it was a burn and it spread further after the amputation so I'm going to keep an eye on it, although in speaking to the breeder he suspects she may have gotten caught on something and injured it that way since she was spending more of her time in her warm hide last night than on the cool side of the tank. The vet said the tip will fall off on its own, but I'm hoping she doesn't lose her whole tail in the process.

She's in fine health otherwise, just stressed. She was calm at the vet's until he gave her her antibiotic, and I'm a little worried about the stress involved with that as well but hopefully she'll be more comfortable in her tank.

My concern with the UTH+thermostat is the drastic difference in readings (85 on the thermostat probe versus a whopping 116 with my temp gun this afternoon--I have her out of her tank while I clean it.) I'm buying her the next UTH size up today since I was going to do that anyway, so hopefully that will solve the problem. If it's the thermostat I'll have to see if I can recalibrate I suppose. They were both working fine this week up until last night so I'm not sure what happened.

isabelly · Mar 22, 2015

Thankfully her new UTH fixed the heat problem for now. When I was cleaning out her tank before returning her to it after the vet trip I noticed a mark on the glass in the shape of her tail--it looks like she whacked it against the glass of the tank, and that's how the trauma happened. I emailed the vet to ask if that changes his opinion on amputation, although he hasn't gotten back to me yet. He seemed to think that she'd drop the dead area on her own and she's on 2 oral antibiotics + 1 ointment that I'm using at the edge of the wound and will use it on her tail once the dead part drops. Is it usual for vets to recommend against amputation? I guess my concern is having it spread further up the tail but from what I can tell it's just shriveled at the point of trauma. I hope she'll be able to grow the rest of her tail back without dropping the whole thing.

My other concern is feeding her since she's so new. She ate 2 mealworms last night after being with me for 5 days, but I worry about the stress putting her off food and now that she's losing her tail fat she won't have all of that storage. I'm thinking of getting her hornworms or silkworms rather than mealworms while she's healing to see if she'll find those appealing. Any thoughts?

isabelly · Mar 22, 2015

Also, should I remove the sphagnum moss from her moist hide while she's healing and not in shed? I've been reading in a few other threads here that the moisture can lead to bacterial growth.

indyana · Mar 23, 2015

Yes, letting the dead tissue fall off on its own is also an option if the vet believes the damage is limited and not likely to spread on its own (infection or necrosis is a better reason to amputate a section). Obviously, if you see it starting to move up her tail toward her body, I would get her reassessed, but hopefully, the damaged area will fall off on its own without issue as the vet expects.

I'd keep an eye on your thermostat, I guess. It seems very odd that the thermostat probe and temp gun readings would be so incredibly different in the same exact spot.

I don't think changing foods is necessary unless she starts refusing food and losing a lot of weight. Mealworms are actually a bit more fatty. Plus, she hopefully will only lose a small portion of her tail and not her entire fat reserve. And there's not a reason to worry about the moist hide unless she starts spending all her time in there. You could also temporarily swap moss for damp paper towels if you're worried about bits of moss sticking to the wound.

isabelly · Mar 23, 2015

Thankfully the damage seems to be totally contained to that area--I've been taking pictures every day to document any changes in it. She's also active and calm other than when she has to have her oral antibiotics. I feel terrible every time I handle her for them since I don't want to set her stress levels back but as soon as I put her back in her tank she seems okay.

The thermostat + new UTH seem to be working better together. It reads a couple degrees higher than my temp gun now but I assume that's normal and much better to adjust around that than that scary 30 degree difference the other day.

Thank you all for the help.

I like the vet I brought her to--he's been checking in with me via email. Unfortunately I have to go out of town this week so my roommates will be taking care of her, but they've been great about helping out and I'm sure she'll be fine while I'm gone.

(The white area on her tail in the photos is the ointment the vet assistant put on there. Today the reddened area above the necrosis looks much better--the vet thinks she'll be able to make a clean drop.)

indyana · Mar 23, 2015

Aww, that looks painful.

Sounds like the vet covered all the bases with heading off an infection though! I wish her a speedy recovery.

cowana · Mar 24, 2015

Poor girl, but it looks like you did everything right in getting her to a vet immediately. You found a good reptile vet and have the cause fixed now, so she should recover just fine. Accidents and malfunctions happen. Don't beat yourself up about it. [emoji4]

Most vets won't amputate if there isn't an immediate need. It is more traumatic for the gecko and can cause them to lose the whole tail. If they drop it themselves they usually will only drop the dead portion. [emoji4]

isabelly · Mar 24, 2015

She's been really good about cooperating for her tail ointment (it doesn't seem to bother her most of the time) but the oral meds are definitely stressful on her. Do you think there's anything I can do to keep her associations with handling from being negative? I don't want to over-handle her since I already have to medicate her once a day (twice for her tail, but she's calmer for that) but I would hate for her to think of my hand/leaving her tank as terrible stressful things.

Sometimes I'll manage to take her out in her cool hide, since that has levels, and I'll leave it on my bed for a few minutes for her to get acclimated and explore/smell things before I give her her meds. She's usually much calmer when I do that, though she still hates being given the actual medicine. But if she's under her warm hide when it's time to medicate her, I have to take her out of the tank by hand, and she's much more prone to squirming/bolting then. When I switch out her water and do daily maintenance I'll leave my hand palm-up in her tank for her to see for a few seconds, and I've also offered her some mealies (she hasn't eaten yet, though) but I'm not sure if there's anything else I can do.

cowana · Mar 24, 2015

Medicating orally is never fun. Is something the vet said you could put on her lips or end of her nose and let her lick off? Might be less stressful that way. I would check with your vet before trying it because you want to make sure she is getting the right dosage.

You could possibly try offering her a waxworm after medicating. Most Leos love them and they may stimulate her appetite as well. They are really fatty though, so you should only offer one as a treat afterwards.

isabelly · Mar 24, 2015

I'll check with him to see what he says.

She gets 1 oral med every day and a different one every other day, so it might be harder to regulate the doses on the days with 2, but it could be doable on the days when she only gets 1. Especially since she's going to be on these for a couple of weeks, I hate to think about handling her so much every single day while she's still getting used to me.

If she continues to not show interest in her mealies I'll definitely see about waxworms for her.

isabelly · Mar 25, 2015

I left town today and my roommates let me know that Bela unfortunately dropped her whole tail rather than just the injured area like the vet had hoped.

She's been good about licking her meds, and was also calm for them when they put ointment on her tail.

I made a very extensive caresheet for them while I'm away, and I know they'll take good care of her, but our vet is out of the office until Sunday and I'm a little concerned about her dropping weight now that she no longer has any fat stores on her. I told my roommate to let me know if she eats her mealworms tomorrow, but if not should I look into other feeders? I would consider waxworms to jumpstart her eating again but don't want her to get addicted to them.

indyana · Mar 26, 2015

No, I'd just keep doing what you're doing. Unless she goes off food for an extended period of time (week +), she'll probably be fine. Sorry she dropped the entire tail.

isabelly · Apr 2, 2015

Just got back into town last night and Isabela thankfully doesn't look like she's dropped any weight but unfortunately my roommates only got her to eat undusted mealworms and I think she only ate 5 over the course of the week. Her warm side temps were on the low side last night though (85 at her UTH's highest spot) so it's possible that they weren't high enough while I was gone and that was affecting her prey drive/desire to eat.

It sounds like she's not a fan of either the Reptivite or the calcium w/o D3, and I was wondering if something like pro gutload would be an option to get her her vitamins without dusting? Clearly she investigates her calcium dish since I find little calcium footprints all over the tank but I haven't seen her actively lick any of it. Alternatively, has anyone had luck with Repashy calcium plus for leos who stick their nose up at other supps?

They had also let her antibiotic ointment build up over her tail stump so that it had formed a crust there and were just administering fresh ointment on top of the pre-existing ointment. I gave her a warm shallow bath last night to try to gently q-tip some of it off and get back down to her skin but she wasn't happy about it, understandably. I e-mailed my vet but I assume with a dropped tail her skin should be getting a chance to breathe in order to heal. I can't imagine just swabbing fresh ointment over old ointment was doing her any good.

indyana · Apr 3, 2015

Gutloading alone probably won't provide enough minerals. To be honest, with the stress of the tail injury, medication, etc., I'm not surprised her appetite isn't up to par. Just continue your treatment and normal feeding routine. As long as she's eating a bit now and then, she'll be fine. It's important to remember that geckos, as reptiles, can go without food for FAR longer than you think without losing a lot of weight. They don't have a constantly-burning metabolism producing body heat.

I wouldn't mess too much with the tail stump or do a lot of soaking, but feel free to see what your vet says as well. Just a thin layer of ointment is needed, so a huge amount shouldn't build up there.

isabelly · Apr 4, 2015

She ate a dusted waxworm last night and also licked up some calcium while I watched and showed interest in her hornworms so hopefully she'll be fine.

The vet still wants me to apply her ointment and meds which she's never happy about but I think otherwise she's recovering okay.

cowana · Apr 5, 2015

Glad she is eating a bit and exploring her calcium. [emoji4] You cal always offer a few undusted mealworms to stimulate appetite to encourage her to eat, and then try again with the dusted feeders. Also sometimes putting a bit of the dusting on your finger and then on her nose so she can lick it off may help her get a taste for it, especially if she has never had dusted feeders before (or a vitamin supplement).

Keep up with your care. She seems like she is maintaining a healthy weight so I wouldn't worry too much.

sausage · Apr 8, 2015

looks like shes on the mend, i would have to say from reading this thread that it looks and sounds like some sort of trauma was the cause. a burn from the UHT wouldn't be all the way round the tip like pictured, her feet and belly would also be burned.
I had a similar thing happen a few years back when i kept two females together. one nipped the others tail, once the vertebrae has separated inside but the skin is still intact on the outside, it begins to shrivel and die before it drops off. in this instance her tail shriveled but peanut must have been uncomfortable so she pulled the tail off her self :S. I think this was most likely the case with yours.

Ryder5406 · Apr 16, 2015

I just recently got a w/y eclipse Leo. He's about 45 grams and 9 months old. I noticed the tip of his tail started looking bruised. Just a 1/4" of it. Now it's turning black and going to fall off. I'm worried it will work up the tail and it will all fall off. He's got such a pretty tail too. I've bred him several times to my 2 females and he of course shook that thing all over the place. I'm wondering if he didn't go overboard and hurt his tail. I also left mealworms in with him cause he's new and stressed from breeding so I'm making sure he's got plenty of food. I'm scared one of them caused it but I know plenty of people house there Leo's this way. I feed me Leo's with nothing but them and the food and remove all the food after feeding. I'm worried about what I should do also. I'm wondering if the OP may take a recent picture of his girl to see what she looks like now.

Injured tail? New owner, please help

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