Sudden EXTREME 'enigma' syndrome

JordanAng420 · Jun 4, 2009

Nefertiti has developed this "syndrome" in what seems like less than 4 hours...this morning & afternoon I witnessed her eating from her bowl like she normally does...less than 20 minutes ago, I walked into the gecko room to find Nefertiti doing tight circles in her cage with an extreme head tilt to the right. Her pupils are slightly dialated and she looks a little pale to me...when she tries to walk she gets these, for lack of a better word, "spasms" where she kinda flips onto her back and then rights herself. She's in a cage by herself, has NOT been bred recently, is NOT ovulating...nothing could have fallen or been knocked over, everything is sturdy and in place...her UTH is fine, ground and ambient temps are within normal limits...

I've never seen any "enigma" behaviors in her before this today, and it REALLY freaked me * out when I saw her behaving like this. She is from a VERY well-known and well-respected breeder within the leopard gecko community, and i'm considering actually calling him to see what he thinks...I purchased her back in January.

I figured she has to be stressed out about something...I can't figure out what it is...and I don't want to figure it out too late either

Should it just "resolve" itself? I mean, I have no idea what I can do for her right now...?Any clues, friends?

I'm tellin y'all (uh oh, the southern accent's coming out) i'm gonna self-destruct very, very soon...

JordanAng420 · Jun 4, 2009

The picture really doesn't show the extreme I wanted to capture, however I assure you, she's REALLY lopsided & uncoordinated...
Here's another photo...

PacHerp · Jun 4, 2009

Unfortunately, I've seen this before...

I hatched out a seemingly healthy, 'non-circling' enigma hatchling... only to find her doing the EXACT same things in her tub around the 25 gram mark. She continued this behavior, along with being very 'bitey', as though she is always agitated. now that she is closer to the 35 gram mark, she seems to be doing slightly better - but is still always irritated and a little 'off'.

I personally think the enigma deal is completely unpredictable - animals with bad symptoms can one day be completely fine and be that way for the rest of their lives. Other animals will be completely fine until they reach a certain age, or start ovulating or breeding. We still have a long way to go when it comes to figuring these things out.

I have personally decided not to work with Enigmas anymore - not because I think anything bad about the morph, but simply because I do not wish to work with something so unpredictable at this time. I commend breeders that are working with the Enigma morph, and hope that one day we can work together to figure everything out.

I know that Kelli at H.I.S.S has been waiting for some lab results to come back concerning some Enigmas. I would love to hear an update from her when that data arrives.

In short, I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this Maia - but don't worry too much if she is still eating and deficating normally.

JordanAng420 · Jun 4, 2009

Thanks Brittney

I am very curious about those lab results too, and have read a thread regarding that...i'm actually searching for that thread right now. As of this morning and afternoon, her appetite is normal and so are her bowel movements. Stinky, but normal, lol.

It really took me by suprise though, here's my beautiful perfect enigma who's got some serious genetics behind her, doing all this crap all of a sudden and I feel like I just got punched in the stomach. She looks pretty uncomfortable, I wish I could do something for her.

Bellalee · Jun 4, 2009

I honestly no clue.. I just wish you luck with her.

PacHerp · Jun 4, 2009

JordanAng420 said:
Thanks Brittney I am very curious about those lab results too, and have read a thread regarding that...i'm actually searching for that thread right now. As of this morning and afternoon, her appetite is normal and so are her bowel movements. Stinky, but normal, lol.

It really took me by suprise though, here's my beautiful perfect enigma who's got some serious genetics behind her, doing all this crap all of a sudden and I feel like I just got punched in the stomach. She looks pretty uncomfortable, I wish I could do something for her.

Maia,

not a problem, I hope I was able to offer you some help.

I wish you the best with her... keep us updated.

Tommy13b · Jun 4, 2009

Mine did the same thing, are you useing any light with her? Enigma's are very sencitive to light and mine only dose it in bright light however, she still dose it slitly but she eats like a pig so im not really worried.

ang3l3s · Jun 4, 2009

PacHerp said:
Unfortunately, I've seen this before...

I hatched out a seemingly healthy, 'non-circling' enigma hatchling... only to find her doing the EXACT same things in her tub around the 25 gram mark. She continued this behavior, along with being very 'bitey', as though she is always agitated. now that she is closer to the 35 gram mark, she seems to be doing slightly better - but is still always irritated and a little 'off'.

Agreed, i just got a het for bell a month ago and she has the same attitude. It is a shame cause they really change things up when out crossed and i like how red the eyes get on bells. Good luck on the enigma, i have 2 and they are both weird/retarded/ circling/ but they are still my pets and i love to look at them, i think of them as my great eating weird acting pet which gives them their own character from the rest.

Hey brit, u ever hatch a bell that acts weird like an enigma, or just weird period!!!!! I got a mack hybino which i swear could be an enigma!

Gregg M · Jun 4, 2009

This is just something you need to expect from some Enigmas... No one really knows what triggers it... It is all speculation at this point... I have Enigmas that never showed this trait and a few that developed it out of nowhere...

I doubt it can be bred out honestly... There has been enough years of outcrossing with this morph to "get rid" of this "defect" but it still continues to pop up... My opinion is that all Enigmas have the potential to exibit these quirks... It is just a question of what will trigger it to surface in each individual animal...

JordanAng420 · Jun 4, 2009

Gregg M said:
It is just a question of what will trigger it to surface in each individual animal...

That's what I was trying to find out...can't seem to put my finger on it, though.

Well, I took a very much needed nap, and woke up to find a perfect, normally balanced Nefertiti standing over the food dish waiting for the sky to open up with feeder insects

Picked her up, and she walked straight up my arm into my shirt :main_rolleyes: Whatever it was, it went away...

I guess i'll just keep and eye on her...now i'm really interested about this "syndrome" and would like to research it more...:main_robin:

ang3l3s · Jun 4, 2009

the syndrome usually comes about when they are stressed according to my enigmas, just my experience for what it's worth.

cat_named_noodles · Jun 4, 2009

Glad to hear your lil' one is back to normal. I just got an enigma today and even through shipping she seems to be acting fine (for now anyway). I can imagine how freaky it was to see your baby acting that way! If you find out anything interesting in your research, please post for us enigma owners. It's always good to learn more.

JordanAng420 · Jun 24, 2009

Well, here she goes again. Today shes 20 times worse than she was last time. Her head sways from side to side, and she has these "ticks" and "jerks" that make her appear like she has some form of tourrets syndrome or something. She's doing tight circles in the corner of her cage knocking over everything she comes in contact with. Sigh.

LeapinLizards · Jun 24, 2009

This can be very heartbreaking Maia...I completely know what you're going through! I have a gecko named Piglet that sounds EXACTLY like your girl. Some days are great days, some days are not. He is my sweetest gecko, so it breaks my heart when he has bad days. He doesn't do the jerks, but on his bad days I call him Ray Charles...it's like a head sway almost. I did breed Piglet (this was back before his behavior had gotten more severe), and the only enigma hatchling I've gotten from that pairing is doing beautifully so far. I've yet to see a single ounce of "enigma behavior".

It is the oddest thing though...no matter how off balance he may be, he is DEFINITELY my quickest gecko when it comes to feeding time, and DEAD accurate. It's almost like he has eyes in the back of his head - he can turn around and lunge so quickly. He's nailed me a few times when I was throwing a roach or two in his bin lol.

Keep your head up, and keep loving her

She sounds very special to you. I know I wouldn't trade my guy for anything in the world :sweetheart:

thestack510 · Jun 24, 2009

In my experience it is completely random and it comes and goes in some Enigmas. I noticed with one Enigma that it never happened until I tried to take pics and it seemed to be triggered by the flash from the camera. The greater majority of Enigmas show no signs of this behavior, at least as far as my collection goes. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Add me to the list of those anxiously awaiting any results from testing. Good luck with her.

JordanAng420 · Aug 8, 2009

So now she's not eating. At all. No slurry, no mealworms, no crickets, no nothing. All she does is sit in her cage and circle to the left with her head tilted. Her tail is very, very thin and nothing I do seems to help.

What now?

Is it "time"?

Wreptile · Aug 9, 2009

I'm sorry to hear that Maia. I've never dealt with an Enigma, so I don't know what to do. I hope everything works out.

LeapinLizards said:
This can be very heartbreaking Maia...I completely know what you're going through! I have a gecko named Piglet that sounds EXACTLY like your girl. Some days are great days, some days are not. He is my sweetest gecko, so it breaks my heart when he has bad days. He doesn't do the jerks, but on his bad days I call him Ray Charles...it's like a head sway almost. I did breed Piglet (this was back before his behavior had gotten more severe), and the only enigma hatchling I've gotten from that pairing is doing beautifully so far. I've yet to see a single ounce of "enigma behavior".

It is the oddest thing though...no matter how off balance he may be, he is DEFINITELY my quickest gecko when it comes to feeding time, and DEAD accurate. It's almost like he has eyes in the back of his head - he can turn around and lunge so quickly. He's nailed me a few times when I was throwing a roach or two in his bin lol.

Keep your head up, and keep loving her She sounds very special to you. I know I wouldn't trade my guy for anything in the world :sweetheart:

oh no..
poor little Piglet.

Mel&Keith · Aug 9, 2009

Maia, have you tried covering the tub so it's pretty dark? That might help.

JordanAng420 · Aug 9, 2009

I have tried covering the tub. She's in the dark 24/7.

I've tried to leave a bowl of mealies in her cage at all times, but she doesn't use it. I have a pair of tongs that I use to hold the insects up to her face, but she's so uncoordinated she can't grab it. She strikes in the total opposite direction. And even when she's resting, she sits there with her head tilted.

Lately, i've only seen urates in her cage, which tells me she's not getting ANY nutrition at all. It makes me sick to look at her tail. She's pale as heck. I've taken her to my vet, but he sort of threw his hands up in the air and said "well, let's wait and see" :main_rolleyes:

I mean, i'm wise beyond my years when it comes to veterinary medicine, but I have no idea how to tell if my gecko is really suffering...something tells me she actually might be, and I don't want her to. I really want her to get better, but at this rate it doesn't look good at all.

I really just don't know what to do anymore...i'm at a loss. She can't just go on not eating...68 grams to 41 grams is pretty drastic.

Haligren · Aug 9, 2009

I would think that a leo in pain is a leo that does not eat as it would be too stressed. Or perhaps she could be in mental pain because she wants to stop circling but can't. It sounds like this behavior is almost seizure-like.

I'm really sorry to hear about your little one. I can only imagine how hard it must be to watch them degenerate. My heart is aching now because my in-law's elderly cat is deteriorating right before our eyes so I think I kinda know what you're going through. But don't lose all hope yet. She may suddenly stop with the "enigmatic" behavior and start eating again as I've heard of them doing this You will know when it is time.

*hugs* Hang in there and just try to make your little one as comfortable as possible and know that you've done all you can.

Sudden EXTREME 'enigma' syndrome

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