Deformed/sickly hatchling

Hello,

This is my first time here, although soon I will stop by to make a post asking about my morphs. I am a first time breeder (accidental breeder, actually) and have had 9 healthy baby leos out of 10 eggs so far, the 10th which I messed up on my own and made a mistake. Today, my 11th egg hatched, and the hatchling doesn't seem very healthy. It has a distended abdomen and a short tail, and also seems rather smaller than the other babies when they hatched. The color doesn't seem right either - I'm not exactly getting rare or exciting morphs, but it doesn't seem like a "cool" color... it almost seems like the color didn't develop in spots yet. It almost feels like it hatched too early.

This egg and it's so far unhatched clutchmate have both dimpled in pretty badly this week, right before hatching. They are on time to the best of my knowledge, it's been six weeks since the eggs were laid and that's approximately how long it's taken all of my other leos to hatch.

The one thing I changed in my habits is what I fear might have started causing these issues. For a week or two, my husband insisted that I turn the day light back on in the terrarium (I live in one bedroom and have no room for a legitimate incubator) for the adults and it raised the temperature around 5 degrees, depending on the temperature of the room. When I saw that degree of difference, I stopped turning on the day bulb.

One positive thing is that the little guy is spunky, and squeaks and screams at me anytime I get near him now, but he also seems lethargic otherwise and a little weak. I know this is about as basic of a home breeding operation as one could possibly get, as I did the best I could with the resources I had, and so far I've been very lucky, but this little guy worries me. I'm curious about whether or not I should put him down, or try to give him a chance, or if there are any ideas in general as to what might be wrong with him. Thanks for the help

http://i.imgur.com/rN44jYE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UrzD2zo.jpg

Welcome to GF. Actually, it doesn't look that bad. As for the coloring, could your gecko parents possibly be het for albino, because it looks like an albino. I'd go ahead and see if it will eat. It may surprise you.

Aliza

I honestly have no idea, I know several of the other babies have appeared albino when born but after a couple sheds darkened up, and none have had red eyes. I have one that I think might actually be an albino after a couple of sheds. Both parents were store bought ( :/ ) because we had no intentions of breeding!

I attached a couple pictures of the parents. The male is the patternless one, and he was euthanized a couple months ago for developing what we believe was MBD (you can see the swelling in his poor legs). That is another concern of mine is that he developed those issues, although so far the babies all seem perfectly fine.

http://i.imgur.com/EZFmUUS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/N3v6Inl.jpg

Do you have calcium w/o D3 in the tank at all times?

The male is a super hypo tangerine (not a patternless). The female is an albino, likely Tremper. The male must be het for albino if you're getting babies that are brown like the female instead of black. Only eclipse albinos have red eyes. The others have greenish eyes with some red veins in them.

As mentioned above, it's important to supplement with calcium with vitamin D3, calcium without vitamin D3 and other vitamins. Many people have decided not to leave calcium in the cage (especially calcium with D3) because they don't want their geckos to overdose on it. I leave calcium without D3 in the cage for the hatchlings only, and dust feeders at every other feeding with Repashy calcium plus which is an all-in-one.

Aliza

Indeed he is not a patternless. Surprise! This is why I can't wait to post my babies and see what morphs they are. Even though I know they likely are very common, it's still exciting.

I do leave calcium by itself in all the cages, including the adults (they don't really like it, so as far as I can tell completely leave it alone). I dust most nights, every night for the youngest ones, but I only do calcium+D3 about twice a week. I will say when I first got the male, I probably didn't give him quite enough calcium (he was my first reptile). Perhaps that is why he got MBD? I thought I would have given him enough to prevent that though, so it's a bit of a mystery.

I'm pretty new to reptiles in general, i only asked about the calcium because I understand that lack of calcium can cause MBD. It seems like you probably know more about it than me though. [emoji6]

Matt_pole said:

I'm pretty new to reptiles in general, i only asked about the calcium because I understand that lack of calcium can cause MBD. It seems like you probably know more about it than me though. [emoji6]

Click to expand...

Not necessarily, I feel like I learn new things everyday. And once I found out Minerva was gravid, I had a single overnight time period in which to research leopard gecko breeding online before she laid the eggs and I was in business! And yes, lack of calcium can cause that from my understanding.

Anyway, new update today. Little guy is still not acting as peppy as he should. His clutchmate hatched and although the egg was dimpled and he kind of has that stubby appearance, he's not quite as fat and has a visible amount of energy... much more like the rest of the hatchlings. The sickly one is still fussy, but not squealing at me and falls asleep very quickly even if I'm holding him.

Here are a couple photos I took. His belly just doesn't look right to me, and the dark spot on his back also seems odd. Might just be that they're a bit "transparent" when born but I'm not sure. Also note how he didn't mind just laying on his back for the picture. I'm not giving up on him until I start feeding these two and he makes it obvious he's not doing well, but it's not looking terribly good.

http://i.imgur.com/mynpf9Z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EnHkwXQ.jpg

I would definitely say his belly looks strange.

Also, here is a thread I started showing the rest of my babies so you can see the positive results I've had, not just this one poor little guy.

http://geckoforums.net/f125-morphs-genetics/101723.htm#post802925

The male may have had MBD but the bones look straight which may indicate something else going on. Another common issues I've read about is gout which is often cause by the gecko being fed insects that were fed an improper diet long term. What are you feeding?

The baby does look albino and looks a bit chunky but I concur with Aliza that it doens't look bad. Once it absorbs its yolk and starts to grow a bit it may surprise you and look a lot more normal than you think it might. I would, for now, treat it like any other hatchling (high humidity, small enclosure, temps around 91, offer food when it poops) and keep your fingers crossed. If it doesn't start eating within 2-3 weeks or starts losing weight (you'll need a good gram scale that measures in tenths of grams to monitor weight) then start to worry.

I'm feeding the crickets the Fluker's diet, I think? I'll have to check on that later. Is there a better recommended food for crickets? I know my vet did x-rays on him and he actually had fractures in his limbs too. That's what pushed me over the edge of euthanasia... I didn't want him to suffer anymore.

Good news regarding the little ones! Both hatchlings seem to be doing ok. The albino still has an odd little abdomen but it seems slightly less swollen and he has more energy, etc. Acting a bit more normal, although still a little less enthusiastic. I'm going to try feeding tonight or tomorrow and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help, guys

If you had xrays done and there were fractures it probably wasn't gout. The legs look very strange which still makes me think it may have been more than MBD tho. I don't know about crickets, they do need higher protein levels than roaches but I'm not sure if they can have too much. I do know that dog and cat food in general is bad to feed them and the chemicals in the water crystals may have negative long term effects but I don't think there's specific evidence on what happens if a gecko is only fed them. I try to apply the "you are what you eat" saying and feed my pets and their food only things I would feed myself (or would feed myself if I were inclined to eat some of it! Alfalfa is not something I crave! Haha). I also try to give them variety and would recommend rotating at least two if not three or four kinds of feeders. I believe they are all deficient in something so providin variety as well as supplementation, gutloading and high quality diets for the feeders will help fill in the gaps.

Glad to hear the babies are doing okay! Keep us posted!

Update - the "sickly" one is eating now and looks very much like a normal, proportionate leopard gecko! I think it's gonna be fine!

Thank you all for your help!

Great news!

Aliza

Welcome to the forum as well. It doesn't look too bad, but it could just be a little premature and it's very possible that the parents are het for albino. You are right the tail is a little short and looks a little bit too thin. As it grows as long as you give it a little extra supplementation it should get somewhat better.

Fantastic news!:main_thumbsup: