Incubator Question

Ok so my temp in my incubator is starting to scare me. At first it stayed about 80-81 right were I needed it to be. Here lately with the change in temp I have got up in the morning and found that my temp has dropped to 71 just a few times. I have also found that later in the day the temp will read any were from 85-88. I don't understand whats going on. I have 2 thermometers a digital prob type that runs from the inside that is attached to the front of the door so I don't have to open it all the time. The other is just a hanging thermometer that stays inside. The to also do not always say the same thing. The hanger will read warmer than the digital. I have read that a natural temp variation over a period of time such as going from morning to afternoon to night and back again is ok because it occurs in nature. Nothing like the damage a temp spike will do. I'm still really worried I have 3 eggs in it right now and 4 gravid females with eggs on the way. I need to fix this. Can anyone tell me what they think is going on and if my eggs will be ok. They are all first lays for my females so they may not even be fertile. I candled them last night and did not see a bulls eye in any of them. Please help I know I have one girl that is about to pop.

What kind of incubator do you have?

Aliza

Aliza it's a small wine fridge that was turned in to an incubator. Its been gutted and a thermostat added. Its heated with flexwatt heat rope wired in to the thermostat.I may need a better thermostat or need to seal it better. It dose not have a fan either I can add one if u think it will help. Maybe even take it apart and redo it. My husband said it would work for them and that a lot of people build there own. It just may have not got done right. I need a course on build your own incubators. This is a total disaster I'm just so stressed out about the whole thing. I hope someone can help me.

I can't really speak about the incubator since it's not my area of expertise. It wouldn't surprise me if it's not that well insulated so the ambient temperature is affecting the temp inside the incubator. Is there anywhere in your house where the temp is close to what you want your incubation temp to be so you could put the incubator there for now? I recommend that you buy a ZooMed incubator if you can manage it. It's similar to a hobovator, but more expensive because the (recommended) proportional thermostat is already included. Good luck with them. Even now in my 10th season, I still get antsy when things aren't going perfectly.

Aliza

Kjenkins said:

Aliza it's a small wine fridge that was turned in to an incubator. .... It just may have not got done right. I need a course on build your own incubators.

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1) Use a sealed, insulated container. (I also use a drink cooler).

2) You want as many sealed containers of water as you can fit in there. Over the course of 24hours (or more), the heated air around the containers will heat up to the desired air temp. Then they also emit 80-81F heat. So there will be less need for heat coming from the thermostat & flexwatt.

3) Use a good thermostat. If your design is sealed and insulated but you still have too much variation, I recommend a proportional thermostat.

I been doing some research since this post and I think I can fix it. I have to work fast tho my girls are so very fat and so ready to lay. That's funny I was just looking at a zoomed incubator. The price really is not as bad as I thought it would be. I found them brand new for under 100 dollars. I will be ordering one so I don't have to worry anymore. Until I can order it tho I'v got to try and deal with the one I have for now. I need to reinforce the insulation and seal it better. Also may need to add a fan to circulate the air. I can also add a container with water and a sponge to the bottom this will up the humidity. I'm going to mess with it tomorrow when my son is napping or I will never get anything done. Zoomed is the way to go tho. My thermostat for my rack is zoomed so I can say I'm a fan of there products. Wish me luck and I'll up date on how its going.

Ok I'll try that. I'v seen this done but was skeptical about how accurate it would be. So you have used this method with susses. Wow I really didn't think that would work I laughed the first time I saw a vid on how to make one like that. I thought to myself there is no way this is that easy. Thank u Texarkana that is very helpful.

Update

I'm going to smack my husband when he gets home. The incubator was his responsibility. He said he know what he needed to do to make it work so I said go for it. I just went and did an inspection of the incubator. THE BACK IS OPEN!!!!! OPEN!!!!!! How do you miss a 5in by 4in hole were the cooling system use to be. WOW yep I'm gonna kill him. So I now have to wait until he gets off so he can pick up the supply's I'm going to need to fix this mess.
Girls just always do it your self. lol It's like he just stopped half way throw and forgot to come back to it. lol I'm just glad I noticed now before my girls lay. I cleaned today and I have an other female gravid. That's a grand total of 5 gravid. This could have been absolutely disastrous. I'll up date later when I'm done with it.

Kjenkins said:

Update
THE BACK IS OPEN!!!!! OPEN!!!!!! How do you miss a 5in by 4in hole were the cooling system use to be.

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Did he cut a hole completely through the cooler? I am using a drink cooler, and I didn't remove anything. I just turned the switch to "off" (and I still get to use the light inside it). If there is not an on/off switch on the cooler, I would have left the cooler unplugged.

Here is are some pics of what I have....but I have taken one extra step: I placed a towel covering the 2nd shelf from the bottom and I snipped 1" diagonally off the corners (This creates a hot area underneath that slowly allows heat to evenly reach the upper area).

Don't underestimate the usefulness of water bottles and water tubs to stabilize the temps. If you open the incubator for 30 seconds, you lose all your warm air. More bottles/tubs will give you LESS air space to reheat AND they emit the PROPER temperature of heat....so it stabilizes again in about 15 minutes (roughly).



The bottom area reaches 90F and the top area (where the thermostat probe is) stays a steady 81F.
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No he didn't make the hole it was gutted when we got it. I worked on it for a long time today I think I may have fixed it. I want to check it in the morning to see how it holds up. I'll add the water to it tomorrow and adjust the temp if needed. Hopefully all the work I put in today will pay off. Texarkana you have been really helpful I will post pics of it tomorrow and maybe you can tell me what you thank about it. I will update later in the afternoon. I just hope I got it sealed up good the temp was at 94 witch is the highest its ever been so I turned the thermostat down. The heat pad I added seems to be doing its job. I will see you all in the morning this momma is going to bed.

Your heatsource is usually capable of getting wayyyy "over-hot". That's why I used a towel to trap the heat down there....the thermostat's probe is located in the center of the upper section...right by the delicups. So as the trapped heat rises, the thermostat kicks off if the upper section gets too hot.

Ok so now I'm in even bigger trouble the temp was spiked when I got home to a wooping 103. I removed the heat pad and turned the thermostat down. Now its for about the last 10 mins been staying at 82 but its bouncing around from 82.3 to 82.9. Do you think this point flux will hurt my eggs. Yeah I also found eggs when I got home to. I'm excited and devastated all at the same time. I candled them and there fertile. A perfect lil fluttering bulls eye in both eggs and my incubator is still being stupid. I think I'm going to have a stroke before this is all over. Texarkana I put to water bottles in the bottom and the only source of heat now is the heat rope. I'm going to add more water to the top and two more to the bottom. That will give me 4 on top and 4 on bottom. Do you think that will be enough? Here is what I'm working with any suggestions?

The degree of fluctuation you mention is less than a degree and should be fine.

Aliza

I dropped to 76.4 but it wasn't all at once just gradually as it cooled off for the night. Do u think it will still be ok? I really don't want to lose my eggs because of this and I have 4 more batches on the way. I got to get this fixed.

Kjenkins said:

I dropped to 76.4 but it wasn't all at once just gradually as it cooled off for the night. Do u think it will still be ok? I really don't want to lose my eggs because of this and I have 4 more batches on the way. I got to get this fixed.

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The reason I use a towel is:

My heat source (flexwatt heattape) heats rapidly to I'm gonna guess 110F+. The heat being emitted will be detected by the thermostats probe (and by your temp-monitoring thermometers. This means that your thermostat and your thermometers will be measuring heat waves.....and it will turn on and off excessively....resulting in highs and lows.

I use the towel to trap the excessive heat below and let it "simmer" up to the top. The thermostat probe in the top will be affected LESS by the ON/OFF heatwaves....instead it will maintain a steadier temp above the "hot box" below. Don't be afraid to fill all available space with water tubs and water bottles... This will help maintain your temps.

If you have any doubts, look again at the pic I provided with my temps. I have a temp probe hanging in every corner of the hot bottom and the "incubation" section (set at 81.3....so I maintain actual air temp of 80-81). You can even see that I have my thermostat hanging right in the middle by the perlite delicups on an upper shelf....it is labeled "Herpstat" (my brand of thermostat) in the pic. I think my drink cooler has ALOT more air space than yours and I have been maintaining these perfect temps for over 30days so far.

Ok Texarkana I got up this morning and my temp was reading 73.6 after getting it to maintain 82 yesterday. I think the temp Gods hate me. I just hope my new clutch will be ok I'm thinking about putting there cup in one of the big containers I use for my rack. My rack stays constant. At least something is working right.(knock on wood) I'm going to try to fix it to day. It's like it taunting me I keep thing I got the job done and than poof something else go's wrong. I'll up sate here in a bit.

Kjenkins said:

Ok Texarkana I got up this morning and my temp was reading 73.6 after getting it to maintain 82 yesterday. I think the temp Gods hate me. I just hope my new clutch will be ok I'm thinking about putting there cup in one of the big containers I use for my rack. My rack stays constant. At least something is working right.(knock on wood) I'm going to try to fix it to day. It's like it taunting me I keep thing I got the job done and than poof something else go's wrong. I'll up sate here in a bit.

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Ok..let's start from the beginning:

1) Please describe in DETAILED words...your setup. This includes the brand of thermostat, the brand/length/location of the heatrope, and location of the thermostat probe and the thermometer probes/measurement points.

2) After your detailed written description, please post a few photos of your heatrope and probe locations.

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Again, remember that:

1) my thermostat probe is in the upper section right by my eggs, but my entire upper section maintains an acceptable 80-81F.
2) my heat source is in the BOTTOM...far away from the eggs..
3) the towel creates a "hot box" at the bottom (to prevent "heatwaves" that will screw with your thermostat)...
4) the corners of the towel are cut back 1" to all heat to even and SLOWLY seeeeep into the top...(instead of excessive heating from heatwaves when the thermostat kicks on).


design:




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-eggs on this shelf with t-stat probe....80-81F
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-^^^^...steady slow heat rises at corners...^^^^
------TOWEL TO BLOCK HEATWAVES------------
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-....air temps reach 92F+ down here sometimes...
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-----flexwatt heat tape (tape reaches 100F+
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Ok I'm sorry it took so long to post I had to just unplug from the situation. I how ever have not stopped working. Here Texarkana here is the answer to your Q's.
My set up is a 20 1/2in tall x 13in deep x 7in wide wine cooler with a glass front. It is completely sealed ( besides the door). My thermostat witch is what I believe to be the problem is from Walmart. It is not a reptile thermostat at all. Its simply a normal rectangular, round dial wall thermostat.(you can see it setting in the top left corner in the last pics i posted) My husband picked this thermostat up and did the wiring. This thermostat dose not have a prob but an internal temp censer. My heat rope is Exotera heat rope and is wired with the thermostat. The heat rope is 64ins long(at least the part that heats up is) and coiled at the bottom of the cooler. There is a tub of water sitting on top of the heat rope and on the shelf directly above the tub I have put the towel u were talking about. There are 4 shelves in all. On the top shelf there are water bottles. On the second shelf below the water bottles is were my digital thermometer is hanging. There is also a hanging thermometer in the very top in-front of the water bottles. I can put more pics up later tonight i don't have a way to do so now.
I just made the change in location of the heat rope last night. I got up this morning and the temp was only 71.6 so I have adjusted the temp setting through out the day. It is just now siting at 82.5. I'm going to just monitor it for the rest of the day to see if it stays at this temp. I'm fine with the temp its at right now I just want to make shur there will be no falls or spikes before I use it. I did have another female lay yesterday and both eggs are fertile. So now I have 2 clutches of fertile eggs and don't worry I found a solution for them for now. There at the very bottom of my rack with thermometers inside both cups. My rack is able to keep the cups a consistent 78-79. Witch is a lot better than my incubator cooking the poor things. Also what is ya'lls opinion on the Hova Bator 1602N? There are people that use them and have great luck. Do you think it would be a good investment? If so I will order it. I'll up date my temp later today.

I'm glad you found somewhere safer to keep the eggs With all the information you provided, I think I agree with you and wanted to add a possible explanation.

Kjenkins said:

My thermostat witch is what I believe to be the problem is from Walmart. It is not a reptile thermostat at all. Its simply a normal rectangular, round dial wall thermostat.(you can see it setting in the top left corner in the last pics i posted) My husband picked this thermostat up and did the wiring. This thermostat dose not have a prob but an internal temp censer.

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^^ You clarified that the thermostat is a Home-thermostat that measures air-temps internally (without a probe). Previously, I did not notice this thermostat in your pics....."my bad".

Anyways...it's very impressive when a tech-savvy person can make creative things and ideas work. If he has successfully wired a home-thermostat to heat rope, I think it is "neat". But please let me know if the home-thermostat is now located INSIDE the incubator (by the eggs)?

If the internally-measured thermostat is outside the incubator, it will:

a) turn on all day until the room temp coincidentally exceeds the thermostat settings; or
b) turn off all day until the room-temp coincidentally drops below the thermostat setting...

Yes my husband is very handy. I don't like electricity. We don't get along very well. Lol So he normally is the one doing the wiring. Not that I can't .When you run a pet store for 3 years and do all the pluming and all the wiring. Well, don't get me wrong it was so much fun i loved it but I got nailed a few times. Nothing bad but when mixing electric and water there is always a scene of danger. I had to rebuild the pump on the vat system after we had a big storm here one year and I went to plug it in and one of the 3 canister filters that are on the vat exploded. The collar that holds the lid on wasn't on properly so I ended up standing in a pool of water holding an 8 pound pipe wrench and a live line in the other. Needless to say if the plug I was holding hadn't have had a surge protector that made it cut off I probably would not be here now. I wasn't right for a few days after but other than that no harm was done me. Sorry I'm rambling lol thats part of being a stay at home mom tho if I can find someone to talk to I will. Just tell me to shut up.Lol The answer to your Q is I have not moved the thermostat it is still in the top left corner inside the cooler so it should be reading the air temp inside the cooler. Up date on the temp its not constant its bouncing from 81.7 to 84.4 so far. I'm running out of ideas.