Why are Knob Tails So Expensive?

Ok total n00b question but why are knob tails so expensive? I see some pairs going for insane amounts of money. I mean I gather they aren't as common but are they difficult to keep and breed or something? Just curious.

most likely because most, if not all australian animals were smuggled into the us and so the founder populations are very small, making them rare.

they aren't as prolific as leos either, afaik.

Yeah that was my next guess was some some of importation ban...

I’ve heard some species of knobs are more prolific than Leos, and they're just as hardy.

entropy1980 said:

Ok total n00b question but why are knob tails so expensive? I see some pairs going for insane amounts of money. I mean I gather they aren't as common but are they difficult to keep and breed or something? Just curious.

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It's really has to do with how Australian species (skinks, geckos, other lizards) have been marketed over the years. Prices have come down across the board (see Nephrurus sp., Strophorus sp., Egernia sp., etc.), but remain somewhat high as compared to species from places that aren't quite as taboo...

And "insane amounts of money" is quite relative. Most people won't sell offspring for $100 when they've spent $1600 for their breeders...The old adage "you get what you pay for" can be applied here. Some people had to "pay the piper" at some point (either via legal or illegal channels) for us to get these non-native species in the first place.

ElapidSVT said:

most likely because most, if not all australian animals were smuggled into the us and so the founder populations are very small, making them rare.

they aren't as prolific as leos either, afaik.

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This conversation has taken place on another forum years ago...the difference between "Expensive" and "rare". Very interesting read here.

Small gene pool does not necessarily mean low numbers in captivity (in the short term anyway). SO, a small founder population can yield a animal that is rather "common" albeit likely with all the consequences of inbreeding (which is pretty much what is happening with many Australian species- at least geckos).

Halley said:

I’ve heard some species of knobs are more prolific than Leos, and they're just as hardy.

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Yep. Some are...others not so much...

Good thread! I started working with knobtails a few 3-4 years ago because I was completely fascinated and smitten with them. I paid a LOT of money for my founding stock, and after several years I realized they cannot be compared to leopard geckos as far as their care and how prolific they were.

My smooth and rough knobtails are a challenge to care for, and are NOT as prolific as many other species. The N. milii are the exception... they are easy to care for and quite prolific breeders.

I think the original knobtails were illegally brought in to the US, but this does not count for the geckos brought in through Europe... although since Australia no longer allows the exportation of native species, what we have now in our collections is going to be all there is (unless they are illegally smuggled in). I respect and follow the laws, but I do not feel guilty about having the modest collection of Aussie geckos I have.

There are only a few knobtails keepers/breeders here in the US that I would consider to be 'experts'. I don't know what their hatch rates are, but mine runs around 40% for N. levis sp., and about 90% for N. milii. I waited a full 2 years to breed my N. wheeleri and so far only have 1 fertile clutch incubating. I think we have a LOT to learn about the husbandry and breeding of these remarkable little geckos, and many keepers/breeders are not as willing to share information as the leopard gecko community is.

So, to answer the OP's question "Why are knobtails so expensive", my answer(s) are re-capped below:

1.) They are very rare (especially females).
2). They are a bit of a challenge to keep/breed for most geckos keepers.
3). We are still learning how to optimize their husbandry and feeding/supplementation requirements.
4). Cooperative keepers/breeders are slowly trying to diversify the shallow gene pool we have her in the US.

The prices have started coming down now that more knobtails are becoming available, but we cannot expect the bottom to fall out on the market (like with leopard geckos) for quite some time... until we learn more, do a better job keeping them, and start producing more.

Great thread

I agree with Marcia, this is a great topic!

I purchased my first Nephrurus species (N. levis levis) back in 1998/1999 and even after keeping/breeding Nephrurus for a decade, by no means would I consider myself even close to an expert. I'm only speaking from my experiences, but back then the "community of rare and high end geckos" was what I would consider a "closed community". It was difficult to find husbandry and breeding information (this was also before the internet age), and those who were successful were unlikely to share their information with others. Most keepers had to figure things out on their own, mainly through trial and error. Those times may have changed slightly, but with very successful Nephrurus keepers, they still maintain their collections with some privacy.

I can't fully disagree with anything already mentioned, but I would like to add that with diligent care and proper husbandry- Nephrurus species CAN be just as hardy as a leopard gecko. Some of my oldest knobs are 7+ years old (male and females) and I know of several individuals in other collections that are 9+yr old females that are still producing viable offspring. (I've seen these animals personally from the time they were hatchlings until now!)

Jon

Some of my oldest knobs are 7+ years old (male and females) and I know of several individuals in other collections that are 9+yr old females that are still producing viable offspring.

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Jon, that is GREAT to hear!

This is a great thread with lots of insight.

Wow thanks for all the responses! Well I am going to see how my season goes this year maybe 2011 will be year of the knobtail for me and my collection thanks again though for all the great info!!