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mystikal222
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Maybe its more a matter of how each individual person defines "bond". I bond with different ppl in my life in different ways.You give and recieve different enrichment from different ppl or animals.
I don't know...wasn't going to comment on this touchy subject; but from my own experience with my geckos, some seem to be "more capable of thinking" than others. I have some that are just associating me to food, I know. But I also have a few that will come out from their hides, so they can be held. They'll start climbing on top of their wood or climb the glass on the front end of their tank until I pick them up, then they'll sit briefly on my hand, and "happily" to go back to their tanks satisfied. They won't do the climbing after I have held them. I think the amount of interactions with human also plays a role. Eventhough they don't have emotions like dogs and cats or birds do, if there is a "emotion-capability scale" 1-10, they can still be 0.1, 0.2 or 0.3 right? 
How about the picky eaters that choose their food? Isn't that a type of thinking?
How about the picky eaters that choose their food? Isn't that a type of thinking?
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Baoh
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"Test sessions that examined control by olfactory cues revealed that they did not affect performance."
I will check the full text on Monday at work.
Yes, I know. And the amygdala is a common topic involving emotion/fear-based memory association and consolidation, too. I'd look to the amygdala when trying to gain a better understanding of how leos think. Do me a little favor, though, in the future. When you use material from a source that is not yours, please cite it. It is simply for honesty and giving credit where it is due.
http://leejohnbarnes.blogspot.com/2008/01/cro-magnons-mirror-neurones-and.html
Appreciated.
Baoh
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That is pretty cute. Makes me want a tegu.
Golden Gate Geckos
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THAT'S THE ONE!!! You cannot tell me those tegus are not wanting attention from their keeper. Heck, they even chose him over their dinner! LOL!!!
Baoh
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Many captive animals like attention of various sorts. Tortoise owners know well of tortoises stretching out their necks for a chin or neck rub. I think there's a point where people cross the line, though, and imagine their geckos/hermit crabs/planarians have a favorite TV show. Somewhere in the middle is most often where the answer will be found. That is part of why I addressed the human tendency to polarize earlier.
That vid really makes me want to get a tegu. My brother had a really nice Savannah monitor once that would climb up his shirt, stick his head in my brother's hair, and "smell" his scalp/hair for long periods of time. We never had another behave like that, though.
S
Slager
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As much as I would love to think that my leo has "bonded" with me, I just don't think that this is the case. I believe that he has the simple ability to recognize my scent and maybe my face in some sort of primitive way. Every time I have him out of his cage he licks me to pick up my scent. He also pokes his head out of his hide when I walk in the room because he associates me with his next meal. He knows that I am not a predator and am no way a threat. They become conditioned to a routine (especially feeding). If you feel though that your leo bonded with you in some small way that is great. Who am I to try to take that away from someone. That is what makes this hobby worth while. People have a tendency to give human characteristics to things that are very different from them. It is not as though you can train a reptile in the same way you can a dog. It has been said that dogs have the intelligence of an infant human. However, their brains are much larger and capable of a much higher thought process. This is simply not possible with how small a reptile's brain is. Just my two cents. Either way, leos are amazing little creatures that are just way too much fun, whether they sense emotion or not.
What a cool video! :main_yes:
I looked at several others where the tegus are clearly going to their
owners. I dont know how else to explain that behaviour except
seeking attention.
I have never seen a leopard gecko quite that "friendly" though.
I agree, I dont keep leos because I think they will "bond" with me, or
show me any sort of recognition, I keep them because they are such
fascinating animals.
I am satisfied that they are tame enough to pet and handle.
I get pleasure from it, even if they dont.
Like you said, mine poke their heads out and come out of their caves
to when I walk into the room. This is how I can tell if they are hungry.
They come out and stand there, looking up at me, and will follow me
as I walk around the room. Their eyes are wide too, like they are
excited about something.
When they are not hungry, they do not do that.
When my female is hungry, she will stand in the spot where I always
put the meal worm dish and stare at me until she gets fed.
All my leos recognize the feeding tongs. When they see it, they come
running. It is not coincidence. So, I know for a fact that they are
able to make these simple associations.
Next Level Geckos
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Well baoh i never said it did make it correct/
Next Level Geckos
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Let's just face it. We will never know for sure what they are thinking. We can't read their minds.
S
stayahead
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I think just because reptiles lack the parts of the brain responsible for higher functions in *humans*, that doesn't mean that those functions couldn't have developed in another part of the reptile brain.
I don't think geckos have ability to love their owner but they do learn trust and that we aren't a threat. They also associate us with feeding them, so in those ways I think they develop a sort of primitive connection with us.
I don't think geckos have ability to love their owner but they do learn trust and that we aren't a threat. They also associate us with feeding them, so in those ways I think they develop a sort of primitive connection with us.
Gregg M
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Where I got this info, there was nothing to site... Besides, anyone who knows me knows that I do not write like that... LOL... Sorta like how you yourself cut and paste stuff... Its just easier to do that than to try and put what you already learned from reading that info into your own words...
Anyway, the Tegu vid can be taken two different ways...
#1, they are looking to their owner for attention...
#2, they are seeing the tall object (human) as landscape or an ideal spot in the cage... Who knows, there could have been an area in the cage normally out of reach like an exit point until there is a tall structure in the cage...
2 seasons ago I bred black and whites and reds... I have plenty of experience with tegus and NEVER saw behavior like this... I think it there is more to this vid than meets the eye...
Or, I can be 100% wrong... Stranger things have happend...
Retribution Reptiles
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The way that i see it if reptiles had the higher brain function to associate with a bond other then food you would see alot more people having large reptiles as pets. I have never kept anything larger then some RES, Snapping Turtles, Anoles, and Leos due to space restriction. But from my experiences they "like" me when i have food over their head. All other times they are very indifferent.
**DISCLAIMER*** These are just personal observations i am no way trained in reptile sciences.
**DISCLAIMER*** These are just personal observations i am no way trained in reptile sciences.
Haligren
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While I found the tegu vid to be very touching I think it could be one of a few things as Gregg had suggested:
-The tegus really were veying for his attention.
-It's cold in there and they know he's warm?
-As Gregg said, 'oh, look, a tall thing for me to climb on that I might escape from this treachery!'
-He normally hand feeds them so they're coming over to him to see if he has any food. Although this one is less probable as he had plates of food already in the pen, and if they were really that hungry they probably would have just left him alone.
Perhaps it really does depend on how much time you spend interacting with your reptile. Since they have primitive brains it takes them a lot longer to form connections than other animals, so with repeated interaction it might finally occurr to them that "this tall, weird looking thing is a really nice part of my scenery and I want to be held and touched and fed! ONOMNOMNOMNOM!" Well...maybe not that last part.
-The tegus really were veying for his attention.
-It's cold in there and they know he's warm?
-As Gregg said, 'oh, look, a tall thing for me to climb on that I might escape from this treachery!'
-He normally hand feeds them so they're coming over to him to see if he has any food. Although this one is less probable as he had plates of food already in the pen, and if they were really that hungry they probably would have just left him alone.
Perhaps it really does depend on how much time you spend interacting with your reptile. Since they have primitive brains it takes them a lot longer to form connections than other animals, so with repeated interaction it might finally occurr to them that "this tall, weird looking thing is a really nice part of my scenery and I want to be held and touched and fed! ONOMNOMNOMNOM!" Well...maybe not that last part.
As Gregg said, 'oh, look, a tall thing for me to climb on that I might escape from this treachery!'
LOL! that's the first thing I thought when I saw the video.
They see a way "up and out!"
But then, I watched some other videos of owners interacting with
theirs, and the tegus do seem to be seeking their attention :main_huh:
It could be something else entirely, it just looks that way.
I do think it's interesting that Gregg, in his years of experience, has
never seen this before.
I would think that if reptiles really where that "friendly", they would be
more popular.
Baoh
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I said polarization is not necessarily correct.
Baoh
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Yes, you can cite a book or a website.
Show me where I have ever made a cut and paste without citation/referencing the source? I look forward to your example(s).
Gregg M
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#1, that was not the site I cut and pasted from... It seems more like a generic definition rather than "someone elses work"...
#2, Below is your cut and paste without citation...
"Test sessions that examined control by olfactory cues revealed that they did not affect performance."
Is this the direction this thread should take or can we keep it on topic without your opinion on how things should be cut and pasted...
Golden Gate Geckos
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LOL, Gregg!Gregg M said:
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