Holding a gecko (or any lizard) upside down

Klogue1 · Sep 11, 2011

Is it true that if you hold a lizard upside down, it can't breathe/crushes it's organs? I think it's true but can anybody provide me a knowledgeable source? Edit: I couldn't find any when I googled a bunch of different stuff.

Just so you guys know I do NOT intend to try this myself, anyways. I'm just trying to let a friend know that she shouldn't do this but she doesn't believe me

I want to be sure it doesn't hurt the gecko.

geckogirl3 · Sep 11, 2011

like this?

Klogue1 · Sep 11, 2011

Yes, like that.

Syn · Sep 11, 2011

geckogirl3 said:
like this?

That was a great, well thought-out answer to a serious question.

OP, this link shows that in some species of iguana, they can pass out from lack of oxygen:
http://bluetongueskinks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18286&sid=fd471992e66c7b9a364e89f5c9e6098b

That being said, it is an iguana in question and not a gecko...
Diaphragm structure could be different for each species. I wish I could provide a few more threads/links.

Klogue1 · Sep 11, 2011

Ah, thank you. It does pose question as to whether or not it's just iguanas, but I think it may help

Thanks again!

On a side note, I couldn't even finish watching that video... Much as some of the posters on that forum said.

reps4life · Sep 11, 2011

They do not have a diaphram and rely on chest and abdominal muscles to breath, so they should not be layed on their backs.

Klogue1 · Sep 11, 2011

Oh, thank you for clearing that up! Thanks everyone

Klogue1 · Sep 11, 2011

reps4life said:
They do not have a diaphram and rely on chest and abdominal muscles to breath, so they should not be layed on their backs.

If I may ask though, just curious (your explanation should satisfy my friend), why can't they use these muscles when lying on their backs? Sorry if I sound like an idiot; sometimes I really should know the answer because it's right in front of me but I don't see it :main_rolleyes:

reps4life · Sep 11, 2011

Klogue1 said:
If I may ask though, just curious (your explanation should satisfy my friend), why can't they use these muscles when lying on their backs? Sorry if I sound like an idiot; sometimes I really should know the answer because it's right in front of me but I don't see it :main_rolleyes:

I will try to explain. We humans have a diaphragm which separates the thoracic cavity (heart, lungs & ribs) from the abdominal cavity and performs an important function in respiration.
Reptiles lack a diaphragm, so the abdominal muscles weigh down on the lungs making it uncomfortable and difficult to breath.

Klogue1 · Sep 11, 2011

reps4life said:
I will try to explain. We humans have a diaphragm which separates the thoracic cavity (heart, lungs & ribs) from the abdominal cavity and performs an important function in respiration.
Reptiles lack a diaphragm, so the abdominal muscles weigh down on the lungs making it uncomfortable and difficult to breath.

Oh, that makes sense! Thank you very much, yet again

Adinar · Sep 11, 2011

geckogirl3 said:
like this?

LMAO, now that looks like a comfy gecko. Little goof.

M_surinamensis · Sep 11, 2011

reps4life said:
I will try to explain. We humans have a diaphragm which separates the thoracic cavity (heart, lungs & ribs) from the abdominal cavity and performs an important function in respiration.
Reptiles lack a diaphragm, so the abdominal muscles weigh down on the lungs making it uncomfortable and difficult to breath.

Reptiles are also also prone to vasovagal responses if turned upside down, or more rapidly if turned upside down while pressure (doesn't take much) is applied to the ventral abdomen. Different species have some different anatomical structures that make it happen more or less readily, but lizards tend to be particularly susceptible.

Adinar said:
LMAO, now that looks like a comfy gecko. Little goof.

Only if you consider fainting due to lack of blood pressure and/or respiration, depriving the brain of oxygen to be "comfy."

It is something that is sometimes manipulated by veterinarians and really experienced individuals as a method of temporary restraint, generally in order to perform medical procedures.

It is not something that should ever be done by anyone who isn't fully aware of exactly what that condition entails, and capable of competently monitoring the condition of the animal while it is subjected to that effect. As with pretty much any condition that causes a drop in O2 and blood pressure, it risks brain damage and death if it is prolonged. Reptiles tend to have comparatively lower oxygen requirements to sustain life, but there are limits.

It's not cute when someone does it without strong justification. It's animal abuse.

Anyone care to place any bets on if that makes GeckoGirl stop doing it? Personally, I kind of doubt it.

reps4life · Sep 11, 2011

M_surinamensis said:
Reptiles are also also prone to vasovagal responses if turned upside down, or more rapidly if turned upside down while pressure (doesn't take much) is applied to the ventral abdomen. Different species have some different anatomical structures that make it happen more or less readily, but lizards tend to be particularly susceptible.

Only if you consider fainting due to lack of blood pressure and/or respiration, depriving the brain of oxygen to be "comfy."

It is something that is sometimes manipulated by veterinarians and really experienced individuals as a method of temporary restraint, generally in order to perform medical procedures.

It is not something that should ever be done by anyone who isn't fully aware of exactly what that condition entails, and capable of competently monitoring the condition of the animal while it is subjected to that effect. As with pretty much any condition that causes a drop in O2 and blood pressure, it risks brain damage and death if it is prolonged. Reptiles tend to have comparatively lower oxygen requirements to sustain life, but there are limits.

It's not cute when someone does it without strong justification. It's animal abuse.

Anyone care to place any bets on if that makes GeckoGirl stop doing it? Personally, I kind of doubt it.

Thank you for adding such great detail. I have seen people do that on you tube and it sickens me.

LD404 · Sep 12, 2011

It looks cute, but I think most are used to small mammals (puppies and kitties) that will show you their tummy as a sign of trust. In a lizard, this may look cute, but once the gecko flips over he seems very eager to escape his tormentor, not the sign of a calm, tame animal. So we learn this is not a trick or a tame gecko, but a suffocating one!

Hopefully GeckoGirl just found the picture, and it's not her gecko...?

I've seen pictures of Enigmas that can't balance, and in fact fall over onto their backs until righted. There's a post here: "Herpy Derp" of an Enigma that can't shed without assistance, and falls over on it's side. Could this be part of the 'Enigma Syndrome' and possibly part of why Enigma's may not live as long - they lose balance, fall over, then simply suffocate?

Taquiq · Sep 12, 2011

LD404 said:
Hopefully GeckoGirl just found the picture, and it's not her gecko...?

That's her gecko... It sickens me when they are being tortured like that.

Klogue1 · Sep 12, 2011

As always surinamensis, your knowledge does not cease to amaze me

thanks for your great answer!

contracteryin · Sep 12, 2011

I've never held my gecko(s) like that, and the one time one of my friends who had a leo that showed me that, it just wanted to get back right-side up. It's a pity that people do this :/ I'd hate to endanger my geckos lives... and if I had to be right-side up to breath, I'd hate to be flipped on my back as well.

SamsonizeMe · Dec 6, 2011

LD404 said:
I've seen pictures of Enigmas that can't balance, and in fact fall over onto their backs until righted. There's a post here: "Herpy Derp" of an Enigma that can't shed without assistance, and falls over on it's side. Could this be part of the 'Enigma Syndrome' and possibly part of why Enigma's may not live as long - they lose balance, fall over, then simply suffocate?

Firstly, sorry for the necrobump, but that's my thread. For those not familiar with the thread and who cannot see the pictures, apologies as well. My imagehost is offline at the moment. I am not going to contest the idea that this is a bad idea for most geckos and other lizards.

What I can tell you is that Nebula does this so often that it's a "new normal" that we've come to accept her for. She doesn't often lay upside down out in the open, but when she goes into her coconut shell or her cave, she is known to position herself on her back and stay there, even going to sleep. She does it with such frequency that at this point, it is clearly intentional. She may lay in that position for hours on end (the record is almost a full day) and is, I assure you, alive and healthy.

However - she is a runt, and eats like a bird. She's about a year old and only weighs 35 grams or so, and is about 7" long. Perhaps her low body mass allows her organs a freedom from gravity that a larger gecko simply cannot get away with. Whatever the case, Nebula is the exception to the rule.

Holding a gecko (or any lizard) upside down

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