Concerned about Growth Rate?

RockPigeon · Apr 18, 2014

Hello all,

So I got a leopard gecko from ++++++++ almost exactly one year ago. He was a baby when I got him.

This is Spock the first day I got him:

I feed him a few crickets a day or so, and some meal worms (which he only started eating recently).

The crickets are gut-fed with special cricket diet stuff from Fluker's, and they are also dusted with calcium before I feed Spock.

So anyway, here's Spock one year later:

That's my hand in both pictures. Also, he's since gotten the shed off his toes, so worry not

I've heard from some that he's just a squirt, and some people have said that's actually pretty typical of ++++++++ bought leos. Anybody have any insight?

Thank you all,

-Drew

JBReptiles · Apr 18, 2014

Definitely very small for it's age, actually looks like a 1-2 months juvie (depending on the feeding), just feel free to give him more food, you can for exemple let a few dishes with meal worms (ike that he can shoot on them when he wants) and also purpose him cricket daily / 2days, you can also use grasshopers, dubias to give variations in it's food, until adult age, you can feed them almost as much as they want (once they do not get fat by the meaning of the word fat).

Olympus · Apr 18, 2014

I would take a fecal to the vet, it could very well be parasites. If he's loaded with parasites they're stealing what he's eating, therefore he's not getting what he needs to grow properly. It's usually about $20 to check, so it's worth looking into as a possible option.

trinity · Apr 18, 2014

yeah not normal AT ALL.. I have five +++++ ones and some are on the small side and will top out at 45 to 50 G I would guess so yes small, but all are beefy looking at almost a year old or younger...I poured the feed into them as they ate a TON.. I would think yours is not getting enough food or has a major health issuse. I would pick up a Vit sup like repashy calcium plus vitamin and calcium supplement so he is getting vitamins as well as calcium..

^When I first got her at about 5 to 6 grams.

^about six months old around 20 G.

Here is my male and he is just getting to be 45 G at about year old.. So he IS small but still put on weight and starting to look like an adult.

Neon Aurora · Apr 18, 2014

I don't claim to be a vet or anything, but I think parasites are unlikely.. Despite his size, he's got a good amount of fat in his tail. Plus, one full year of being loaded with parasites likely would have killed him or at least done serious damage to his well-being. I had a tegu once that I purchased from a very unreliable source that had worms and he didn't make it past a few months. He was already too far gone by the time I bought him and treated him.

I actually had a leo with a similar affliction. He was a little bigger than that, but not by much and he was also a year old. The vet didn't know why he was like that. Very unusual indeed. Maybe it's a possible genetic issue(don't take my word on that, it's only theory with very little to support it)? If he's not showing symptoms of poor health, than I would hesitate to say he's sick with some sort of pathogen.

RockPigeon · Apr 18, 2014

trinity said:
yeah not normal AT ALL.. I have five +++++ ones and some are on the small side and will top out at 45 to 50 G I would guess so yes small, but all are beefy looking at almost a year old or younger...I poured the feed into them as they ate a TON.. I would think yours is not getting enough food or has a major health issuse. I would pick up a Vit sup like repashy calcium plus vitamin and calcium supplement so he is getting vitamins as well as calcium..

Could you explain how much food he should be getting? I give him calcium coated crickets, usually 2-3 a day and some mealworms along with them.

I was looking up Parasites, and he doesn't show any other noticeable symptoms such as lack of appetite, runny stool, etc.

I could call a vet, I'm just trying to gauge my options here.

RockPigeon · Apr 18, 2014

Neon Aurora said:
I don't claim to be a vet or anything, but I think parasites are unlikely.. Despite his size, he's got a good amount of fat in his tail. Plus, one full year of being loaded with parasites likely would have killed him or at least done serious damage to his well-being. I had a tegu once that I purchased from a very unreliable source that had worms and he didn't make it past a few months. He was already too far gone by the time I bought him and treated him.

I actually had a leo with a similar affliction. He was a little bigger than that, but not by much and he was also a year old. The vet didn't know why he was like that. Very unusual indeed. Maybe it's a possible genetic issue(don't take my word on that, it's only theory with very little to support it)? If he's not showing symptoms of poor health, than I would hesitate to say he's sick with some sort of pathogen.

Yeah, I get what you're saying - he shows no signs of being sick. He's very agile and likes to run, climb, hunt, etc. A LOT of geckos I see at the pet store are tiny, and I'm wondering if it's just how they're bread (some type of "home-friendly" small gecko rationale?) I really don't know.

Here's a question: Some people have suggested that I simply "feed him crickets until he doesn't eat them anymore" but others have said not to since he would overeat. Any advice?

Neon Aurora · Apr 18, 2014

In my opinion I don't think it's a nutrition problem. The fat content in his tail is enough proof that he's getting the nutrients he needs to support his body. You're welcome to call a vet, but as I said, my vet wasn't able to figure out why my little one was like that. I don't know where you got him from(Shows up as ++++++ for me), but I think it could be possible that intense inbeeding(that's only if you got him from an unreliable source, not saying you did, because I don't know where you got him) could cause a genetic problem, perhaps with the growth plates in his little bones. There are very rare genetic mutations in humans and other animals that cause them to not mature, so maybe the same is possible for reptiles.

Again, though, I'm not saying I'm right. It's just a theory based on my personal experience.

Neon Aurora · Apr 18, 2014

In fact, based on logic and biology, the fat content in his tail tells me that his body isn't using the nutrients from his food to grow. It's being stores away on reserve instead of being used.

Note that as a new member here, I'm trying my best not to come off like a know-it-all. I'm just using my logic and experience. =)

DrCarrotTail · Apr 18, 2014

I would have a fecal done just to rule out that simple possibility. If it comes back clean then I would lean toward something more genetic in nature like an organ not functioning 100% or a missing growth hormone or something. He does look fat and healthy for his size but growing so slowly isn't normal.

What kinds of temperatures are you keeping him at? How are you heating his cage and measuring it?

Olympus · Apr 18, 2014

Reptiles can carry heavy parasite loads for years without outward signs. A lot of people's pet reptiles probably have some parasite or another and are completely unaware of it, since they don't run regular fecal exams. Then sometimes it's not until the animal's immune system gets weak (from stress, an illness, etc.) that the parasites overtake their host and cause serious harm. There's a myth that you can only get them from feeding wild caught insects but commercial crickets are just as likely to carry things like pinworms or coccidia (and yummy things, like E-coli.) I've seen dozens of perfectly healthy reptiles test positive for parasites, which is why it's a good precaution to run a fecal at least once a year.

I'm just saying, that gecko is not normal and before assuming it has an extremely rare genetic condition I'd bet it's something much more typical, like parasites.

JBReptiles · Apr 18, 2014

Neon Aurora said:
I don't claim to be a vet or anything, but I think parasites are unlikely.. Despite his size, he's got a good amount of fat in his tail. Plus, one full year of being loaded with parasites likely would have killed him or at least done serious damage to his well-being. I had a tegu once that I purchased from a very unreliable source that had worms and he didn't make it past a few months. He was already too far gone by the time I bought him and treated him.

I actually had a leo with a similar affliction. He was a little bigger than that, but not by much and he was also a year old. The vet didn't know why he was like that. Very unusual indeed. Maybe it's a possible genetic issue(don't take my word on that, it's only theory with very little to support it)? If he's not showing symptoms of poor health, than I would hesitate to say he's sick with some sort of pathogen.

Totally agree with that, i would add that for me it doesn't neither looks much in deficiences of vitamines / calcium as it would have got disformation of jaw, lets, back etc, while here it still looks "healthy" if we put aside the fact he's 1 year old.

I think try to give it a good boost with food (not with vitamines and calcium as too much is even more dangerous than not enough) and then see in few weeks how it goes, i think you easily can make it twice size within a few month(s). Now a vet fecal check is not the most expensive thaing and could do it "by security" even if i strongly doubt it would be fromthis...

JBReptiles · Apr 18, 2014

Now if you say that lots of geckos from this +++++++ breeder are very small growing and end as small adult, i think most of people that are in leo since severals years know about the "dwarf" problem linked to very high level of consanguinity for exemple...I'm not saying it's this, but still a possibility...

RockPigeon · Apr 19, 2014

I'm going to start with feeding him more. I bought him some meal worms and filled his bowl and he ate like 12 of them. The temperature and humidity are both fine, so that shouldn't be it.

I'm going to try feeding him some more for a bit, and see if that does the trick. I fed him 2-3 crickets and a few dried mealworms every day or so, but when I put live mealworms in his cage last night he ate WAY more than I thought he would... if the problem really was that I just wasn't feeding him enough I will feel terrible.

I'll keep you guys posted, thank you for the help.

JBReptiles · Apr 19, 2014

Dried food is S*?# in my opinion...Here i do feed them cricket while cleaning and fit the dishe with worms for the next 2 days until next cleaning (i put just enough for the dishes to be empty at cleaning time or they tend to not accept cricket if they're ate worm in the few previous hours), i give them grasshoper usually once/twice a week and each food order i make, i take few others prey (various larvae or worms that we must use in small number as they're not healthy as "base" of alimentation) and give them in the next days after a good gutloading to give as much food variation as i can...Also feed your prey in the 24 hours before to give them to your animal is essential, you can use carrot, soft potatoes, etc etc...also something i do is to let a small slice of carrot with the worm present in the dishes available for the gecko as it make them more active and by the way more attractive for the gecko..I do put my vitamines complement only in worm dishes (in very small quantity as i make a pretty good gut-loading) as it will stay on the worms, if you put on cricket, they will clean themselves and remove it all within few minutes.

trinity · Apr 19, 2014

My little babies ate around 6 to10 small crickets a day every day or every other day but I tried to never skip a day as they just ate so much until they got to Med sized crickets but the number stayed the same.. Now I can skip a few days of feeding them.

They grew so fast I just let them have their fill..

JBReptiles · Apr 19, 2014

Leopard gekcos start as babies on medium crickets and turns to adult sized ones when they reach around 15-20g (talking about acheta domesticas size for basis as all crickets are not same size)... small sized ones are pretty much small IMO...

trinity · Apr 19, 2014

The Three different places that I buy crickets from often have a VERY different idea about what small is!! ones small is the same as the nexts med.. Ones med is the next large..

JBReptiles · Apr 20, 2014

trinity said:
The Three different places that I buy crickets from often have a VERY different idea about what small is!! ones small is the same as the nexts med.. Ones med is the next large..

I think it's same problem everywhere for this....here too they all use different size for same appelation (some range them from 1 to 5 or 7 size, other from mini, small, medium, large, adult....etc), when i say medium i mean medium as if we consider it as a cricket half of it's adult size + or -

RockPigeon · Apr 20, 2014

Update!

I have been feeding him a lot more, and while his stomach has gotten bigger, his tail is actually a bit smaller (not just an optical illusion). Does this mean he's using some of that fat for storage or something?

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