Vinegar training?

Lena · Dec 10, 2008

My boyfriend recently got a nasty Tokay, as you some of you may know. He's been joining forums (I don't think he's been approved here, yet) and researching taming techniques.

He came upon the idea of using vinegar to discourage agressive behavior. The basic idea is to squirt a small amount of the stuff into his mouth within 3 seconds of agression so that he assosiates it with the bad taste.

Now, this was posted on another herp forum I frequent and I saw no objections to the idea, and this user says he's used it successfully on other reptiles, dogs, cats, and even horses.

We'd both like to hear what you guys think. :main_robin:

(Posted it in general because, if it is safe, a similar method could be used for leopard geckos and other reptiles.)

thekooliest · Dec 10, 2008

Sounds cool, but wanna hear other people's opinion cause I don't know if it could harm an animal.

LizMarie · Dec 10, 2008

Interesting but I never heard of vinegar used as a training method.

I know that vinegar is used to disinfect and clean gecko tanks I wonder if it can do any harm to a geckos mouth.

Snowy & Petra de Gecko · Dec 10, 2008

Might Work

Leave the post up for a while.

But, I think that if you used the Vinegar it may work and it should not cause any problems to your Leo.:main_huh:

Vinegar is not a chemical but, it is just an acid (I think).:main_thumbsup:

Lady_Kiya · Dec 10, 2008

I would look into vinegar being able to harm the gecko, or perhaps causing changes with shedding, etc. You never know?The idea itself is interesting.
How long have you had the gecko? A lot of people say daily handling will often times show progress with aggresive geckos. My gecko wasn't necessarily nasty, but she was skidish. After a week or two of daily handling so now relaxes on me and recognizes my voice.

Lena · Dec 11, 2008

I can't find anything on the toxicity of it.

And my boyfriend just got him last weekend. He's waiting until the Mr. Nezbit (As he has named it) starts eating and puts some eight on before he starts trying to train him.

Sunrise Reptile · Dec 11, 2008

Vinegar is an acid, so I'd be concerned about the Tokay getting any in its eyes. I think there's gotta be a better way. My $.02 :main_yes:

breanna-banana13 · Dec 11, 2008

maybe water it down a bit..so it still tastes nasty but is a little less potent... just my opinion, it sounds like a good idea though

Lena · Dec 11, 2008

Maybe we'll give him a good mist down after a session. Just to ensure none got into his eyes.

I agree with watering it down.

Snuffy · Dec 11, 2008

Ha. This thread was posted about my gecko!
I personally think that the vinegar is a good idea, as long as we make sure it doesn't get in his eyes. Watering it down is always an option, and we can figure out which way works better, or if it even makes a difference. If anyone can find any reason not to, I would definitely appreciate the information, as the last thing I want to do is hurt Nezbit. I am going to wait until his stress levels go down and he begins eating on a regular basis. I don't want to stress him out anymore than he already is. So...I have a bit of time to find out if this could hurt him in any way.
=]
~Snuffy

Gecko · Dec 11, 2008

Tokay's are naturally aggressive. I'd suspect the best way to tame one would be to breed the nasty adults and try to tame a young hatchling. I personally feel it's going to be real hard to stop the aggression in an adult.

THE WHISPERER · Dec 11, 2008

First of all, Welcome to the forum Snuffy. Second , I have no knowlage of this on geckos but I do know there's a spray you can buy for training agressive dogs, But I don't know if the active ingrediant is vinegar. On the other hand I had a friend that tamed the meanest adult Tokay just by handling it several times a day. hope this helps.

Snuffy · Dec 12, 2008

Yea, I know it will be quite a task to tame a Tokay that is nearly at adulthood, which is why I am trying to find the best methods. I am planning to pick up the youngest baby Tokay I can find at the All Maryland Reptile Show next Saturday as I don't have the means to breed them right now but would still like to try my hand at a baby and see how much easier it is. I'm going to try my hardest to tame Nezbit though.
@THE WHISPERER- Yes, I have seen those sprays for the dogs and have heard they are very effective. I don't think I would use something like that for Nezbit however, unless vinegar proved to be dangerous or something.
Thanks for all the replies, and if anyone hears anything else about this, let me know!
~Snuffy

AllGeckos · Dec 12, 2008

like others I have not heard of this I personally would never do that. 1 I hate vinegar 2 tokays bite thats what they do I would never ask my dog not to bark when someone comes to the door (Yes I encourage it) but all just imo.
Just doesnt seem like a fair thing to do to change a unwanted behavior

Haroldo · Dec 13, 2008

I realize this is already after that fact, but why did you start with a WC tokay that has a natural inclination to protect itself (a.k.a. bite)? There are PLENTY of tokay breeders around that can provide young CBB offspring that are more handable. At some point, we all have to accept that certain animals aren't meant for us to hold...or if we're going to hold them, we should get ones more inclined to tolerate it.

THE WHISPERER · Dec 13, 2008

I'm sorry I didn't mean for you to use the dog spray on your gecko. I was just mentioning that there are spray products out there for training other animals, so the idea of using a spray to train your pet might not be inconceivable. But I do have to agree with the idea of why spray a gecko that you know is naturaly agressive, maybe keep the tokay for looks and get a leo or aft for handling?

Snuffy · Dec 13, 2008

@Haroldo- Yes, I realize that I could have gotten an more easily tamed Tokay to start off with, but what would be the fun in that? I want a challenge. Once I tame Nezbit (notice I said 'once' and not 'if') I will know that I can pretty much tame any other Tokay's that come my way. The only reason I am even considering using the vinegar is because I have a little plan going. The vinegar (or some such substance) will make him want to bite less. This will make him generally easier to handle, so I will be able to keep him out of his tank longer without him having a 'freak out', as it were. In this way, I can get more used to handling him and he can get more used to being handled, while at the same time he won't be biting because of the 'vinegar training'. After doing this every day, for as long as it takes, he will realize that even though he hasn't been on the offensive, he is still safe. (I hope that makes sense. I can say it in my head, but it doesn't seem to come out right.)
@THE WHISPERER- I know you didn't mean use it for him. No need to apologize. Ha. The thing with Nezbit is that he is actually alot friendlier than most people say their Tokay's are. Once he gets over the initial anger, he is actually somewhat friendly, crawling on my hands and even up an arm or two, if you let him. I'd rather have the satisfaction of knowing that at the end of the day, my gecko is friendly because I helped make him that way. That's just me, of course.
I appreciate everyone's opinion and input, and look forward to reading more!
~Snuffy

Pepper · Dec 13, 2008

I think instead of the vinegar, to just wear very thick gloves that he can't bite through, or if he does bite, it's not as painful. I think if you used the vinegar, he would start to associate YOU with something nasty tasting, since it is in his nature to be defensive, he won't know what you are trying to teach him.

This way you can hold him with the gloves until he starts to calm down, then take one glove off, and work up too both taken off, it may take a while, and you never know, he may calm down quickly.

But I seriously think the vinegar would be an inappropriate thing to use on a reptile that does not think like a dog, or like a person, and would not understand what you are doing.

It is much better to slowly make him feel comfortable and safe around you.

malt_geckos · Dec 13, 2008

Well, I think Tokays are usually geckos that aren't "holding" geckos. It's their natural personality to be aggressive. I don't really agree with "disciplining" a tokay because he's using his natural instinct. And the vinegar can get into the eyes easily. I just say keep him as a pretty display animal. That's what a lot of geckos are really...display animals.

Sorry Harold...didn't see your reply.

jakemyster44 · Dec 27, 2008

I agree that the tokay should be treated as a display animal, but if you do decide to "train" it, i recomend applying vinegar with a Q-tip, just dab it in the vinegar and then dab it on its tongue.... no worries about it getting in its eyes.

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