Bioactive Leopard Gecko Experiements

indyana

indyana

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I've recently been interested in trying out a more naturalistic approach with leopard geckos. I've been able to find a few helpful articles and Facebook groups so far, so I'm going to start a thread here to post updates as I explore setting up a desert bioactive enclosure.

I have not done anything big so far. These are haworthia starter plants I picked up after researching succulents that could tolerate arid conditions without intense sunlight. I have placed them in one of the empty compartments in my Boaphile trilogy cage (about 15" W x 23" D x 11" H) with an Exo Terra UVB100 for lighting to see how they fare.




More updates to come...
 
brendan0923

brendan0923

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indyana said:
I've recently been interested in trying out a more naturalistic approach with leopard geckos. I've been able to find a few helpful articles and Facebook groups so far, so I'm going to start a thread here to post updates as I explore setting up a desert bioactive enclosure.

I have not done anything big so far. These are haworthia starter plants I picked up after researching succulents that could tolerate arid conditions without intense sunlight. I have placed them in one of the empty compartments in my Boaphile trilogy cage (about 15" W x 23" D x 11" H) with an Exo Terra UVB100 for lighting to see how they fare.




More updates to come...
Click to expand...
That's awesome, I can't wait to see it! I think the trick here is creating a bioactive subsrate that will fertilize the plants and, of course, that will be safe for the geckos. Keep us updated! Good luck!
 
acpart

acpart

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Good luck with your project. I have 2 leopard geckos in a bioactive substrate bow front which has been set up for the last 2-3 years. The substrate is coco fiber with a relatively small amount of desert sand mixed in and leaf litter from outside on top. The enclosure also has dermastid beetles, crickets and superworm beetles living, breeding and eating poop in there. I don't have plants because I didn't want to do lights. If I were to have plants, I would probably have succulents in pots so I could take them out of the enclosure and soak them. I have had some good luck with haworthia (though they eventually died) in my naturalistic AFT tank that has lighting.

Aliza
 
indyana

indyana

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Yes, I am going to keep any plants in a pot so I can easily relocate/repot as necessary and use a slightly different substrate mix.

Here are some of the resources I've been using, in case anyone else is interested in this topic.

Bioactive Resources
Bioactive Facebook Groups

Substrate Resources

Natural Habitat Resources
 
indyana

indyana

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Research for native habitat of E. macularius afghanicus (Afghan leopard gecko).

Distrubution


Habitat of Interest

And all this research makes me think we are roasting our poor geckos. o_O Need to experiment with configuring my thermostat to cycle the temperature up and down daily.
 
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indyana

indyana

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Coming up with ingredients to include in the substrate...

Dry Area (most of floor)
The goal here is to create a hard-pack substrate that can still be tunneled into, with a very small layer of loose substrate on top. Also, it should be interspersed with rocks and gravel. Once I get the basic ingredients, I'll experiment with the ratios to get the substrate about right.

  • Sand - natural sand from the hardware store
  • Topsoil - Looking for plain old silty soil here, not the fancy enriched stuff.
  • Riverbed Sand? - Exo Terra puts out a sand variant that is very fine and "smooth", representing weathered substrate. This might be a good way to mimic the weathered, alluvial substrate in their native habitat.
  • Excavator clay - to add "packing" power. In the real environment, the substrate is cemented with calcium carbonate and related minerals, but that's not as practical as adding clay. That does, however, provide clues as to why wild geckos don't need calcium supplements... ;)
  • Gravel/rocks - some mixed in, lots pressed into the top.

Humid Hole (area around moist hide, invertebrate home)
This area is used to maintain the cleanup crew and bioactivity.
  • Sand
  • Organic potting soil - more moist than topsoil, larger compost content, microbes
  • Drainage layer - hydroballs or the like covered with drainage mesh
  • Rocks - On top to hide the bugs from the gecko :)

Other Amendments
Here are some other components I'm considering. Because I'm not starting with materials from outside, I'll be relying on finding ways to innoculate my enclosure with beneficial microbes.
  • Leaf litter - purchase from viv supply, probably ground up, as the native environment won't have layers of leaf litter.
  • Organic compost starter - microbes and nutrients for maintaining bioactivity
  • Bene-Bac - beneficial flora for reptiles. Not sure if I'm going to bother mixing this into the substrate or just start including in the gecko diet (will eventually get into the environment via feces).
 
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Tongue Flicker

Tongue Flicker

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I'm using the same mix as Aliza is. Coco fiber + desert sand + a tablespoon of chemical free garden soil. Stir well, mist it at the corners to facilitate microbial growth, throw in some dried leaves, a couple or 3 darkling beetles (from superworms), a couple of superworms, a trio of roaches, some crushed dried leo poop and after a few months, boom! (But it is highly recommended that the mixture be aged for at least half a year to be up in running the natural way)
 
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D

DadCoy

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Maryland
indyana said:
Coming up with ingredients to include in the substrate...

Dry Area (most of floor)
The goal here is to create a hard-pack substrate that can still be tunneled into, with a very small layer of loose substrate on top. Also, it should be interspersed with rocks and gravel. Once I get the basic ingredients, I'll experiment with the ratios to get the substrate about right.

  • Sand - natural sand from the hardware store
  • Topsoil - Looking for plain old silty soil here, not the fancy enriched stuff.
  • Riverbed Sand? - Exo Terra puts out a sand variant that is very fine and "smooth", representing weathered substrate. This might be a good way to mimic the weathered, alluvial substrate in their native habitat.
  • Excavator clay - to add "packing" power. In the real environment, the substrate is cemented with calcium carbonate and related minerals, but that's not as practical as adding clay. That does, however, provide clues as to why wild geckos don't need calcium supplements... ;)
  • Gravel/rocks - some mixed in, lots pressed into the top.

Humid Hole (area around moist hide, invertebrate home)
This area is used to maintain the cleanup crew and bioactivity.
  • Sand
  • Organic potting soil - more moist than topsoil, larger compost content, microbes
  • Drainage layer - hydroballs or the like covered with drainage mesh
  • Rocks - On top to hide the bugs from the gecko :)

Other Amendments
Here are some other components I'm considering. Because I'm not starting with materials from outside, I'll be relying on finding ways to innoculate my enclosure with beneficial microbes.
  • Leaf litter - purchase from viv supply, probably ground up, as the native environment won't have layers of leaf litter.
  • Organic compost starter - microbes and nutrients for maintaining bioactivity
  • Bene-Bac - beneficial flora for reptiles. Not sure if I'm going to bother mixing this into the substrate or just start including in the gecko diet (will eventually get into the environment via feces).
Click to expand...

If you wouldn't mind. Could you explain a little more on the "humid hole" what percentage of the floor plan would this be? and the dry area, how tight would you pack the underneath stuff? I am still doing some research myself on how I want my Father/Son tank to be....

we are looking at not only having the mealworm beetles, but also some dubia in there as well as the "clean up" crew.
 
indyana

indyana

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Since this is the first time I'm doing this, it will be a lot of experimentation.

Right now, I'm planning a very small humid area, so maybe a 40-50 sq. in. area. That would be out of a total floor area of 345 sq. in. (23" x 15"). The more humid area you have, the better the springtails will do, but with leopard geckos, you can't have the humidity in the cage shooting up, so that will be my main concern with my closed display cages. I'm hoping to cover the top surface of the humid area with stones and/or leaf litter to minimize the amount of water that will evaporate back into the air. The humid area is also going to be on the cooler side of the enclosure.

Planning to have a very small drainage layer on most of the floor (1/2 - 1 "). The humid area will be more loosely packed to allow for movement of all the critters. The humid hide itself will be filled with EcoEarth or similar. The majority of the dry area will be extremely well packed, probably as much as I can when I'm sculpting it in. My idea is to have varying depths (anywhere from 2" to 6"). I'll sculpt around placed hides, leaving entrances for the gecko. On the heated end, the area inside the hot hide won't be filled at all; it will be bare floor to allow for maximum heat penetration. The humid hide will be buried so that bottom is on bare floor in the middle of the heat gradient to warm that hide as well. I'm going to leave enough wiggle room around the humid hide so I can remove it if necessary for cleaning or egg checking.

I'd like for the dry substrate to be solid but crumbly, so the gecko could dig if it really wanted to but the substrate won't move as the gecko walks over it in the normal course of wandering around the cage. Haven't gotten all the materials to start experimenting with mixtures yet though.

Dubia are a great idea for a larger enclosure. My cages are not large enough or escape-proof enough to keep dubia in though. :) I'll be sticking with springtails, isopods, and mealworms (standard and/or lesser).
 
acpart

acpart

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As I mentioned in another thread, my single bioactive leo enclosure relies on dermastid beetles and their larvae to do the "cleanup". I also have superworm beetles that breed in the enclosure. they don't bother the geckos and it's really cool to see the beetles trundling around. I don't have too many beetles so there aren't a huge number of super worms produced and since they're usually buried in the substrate the geckos don't really encounter them, but I "harvest" them and drop them on the surface where they are much appreciated.

Aliza
 
indyana

indyana

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Just a note, I've started experimenting with daily heat cycling in my enclosure. I have a light fixture in each compartment, which raises up the ambient temperature during the day. I've started putting the floor heat on a cycle to match. Schedule for the moment is as follows:
- 7 AM lights on
- 10 AM floor heat begins to ramp up to 90 F (will take 2 hours)
- 12 PM floor heat should be full on
- 4 PM lights off
- 6 PM floor heat begins to ramp down (will take 2 hours)
- 8 PM floor heat off

The night time has a safety temp set at 65 F for the floor heat, although I do not expect the temperature in my house to drop that low. I realize in the wild that the heat would ramp down as the sun is going down, but in the wild, the desert surfaces would also be a heck of a lot hotter and retain heat for a while, so I'm trying to mimic that as best I can.

Also, the light cycle is so short at the moment because we're in winter here and I'm following the actual light cycle outside. By peak summer time, they'll be up to 14 hours daylight, 10 hours night. I just adjust the light timer every so often as the sunrise/sunset times change outside.
 
indyana

indyana

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I have reverted the temp cycling change back to 24/7 floor heat as of today. I've noticed a drop in color on my adult male who was the subject of the temperature cycling experiment, as well as oddly-shaped stools. It seems to me that his system preferred the constant floor heat. He regulates himself well (on the heat after lights out, then retreating to his humid hide during the day), but he just doesn't seem as healthy as he did before the temperature cycling.

If my theory is right, I'll see his color and stools become more normal over the next month with the constant floor heat. I'll let you know...

EDIT:

Also, if you're wondering about the bioactive setup, I'm still planning to do it this year, but I'm working with a few big purchases and trying to time the acquisition of cleaner crews so that I can put them into both this viv and a crested gecko viv I'm building this year. At this rate, it looks like that's going to get pushed into spring.
 
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acpart

acpart

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Just a note about cleaner crews: I purchased some white and orange isopods maybe 5 years ago and put them in all my enclosures. A few days ago I had to look through one of my enclosures for my P. klemmeri and actually dug through the sphagnum for the first time since I've put the isopods in there. The colony is still going strong!

Aliza
 
indyana

indyana

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Awesome! Isopods are definitely on my list to try, along with mealworms and lesser mealworms. I'm getting some springtails for the crested gecko viv, so I'll probably thrown some into the desert setup. Pretty sure those are not going to do well though, even with a little humid area.

On the fence about dermestids. I'm not sure I need them if I already have the mealworms.
 
indyana

indyana

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Continuing to ponder cleaner crews. I don't think I'm going to try lesser mealworms to start, or dermestids. There's some risk of escape and egg-attacking (not that I plan to have eggs soon, but something to think about). So mostly mealworms and isopods in a desert area.

As mentioned, stuff is on hold temporarily until it warms up, but I thought I'd post a little update on the haworthia starters. Three months, and they are still surviving. Compared to the earlier picture, you can see they are stretching out and lighter in color, as happens to plants in lower light continues.

 
acpart

acpart

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I was given a haworthia plant when I was in college (1973-77) by someone who had named his plant "Pierre". I've used offshoots of "little Pierre" for years in fat tail tanks. At this point I still have 2 "little Pierres" but not in the enclosures anymore.

Aliza
 
rothsauce

rothsauce

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How has this project been coming along?

I'd like to do a natural setup as well. I think the leos will be much happier and I'd love to see them display some more natural behaviors.
 
indyana

indyana

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Finally purchased most of the materials for the enclosure last week. I mixed up a couple test batches of substrate today to use for the dry areas of the cage. I molded them while moistened, and I'm going to let them dry out and crust over to see how they behave. I was on the fence about the right ratio of soil/sand, so I decided just to test it out and see which I like better.



 
rothsauce

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Nice!

I'll be doing the same once I'm able to get some good cleaner crews secured.

Thought of throwing some calci-sand in the mix just so there would be some more minerals all throughout the mixture. With all the other components I'm not so worried about the negative effects that can be associated with it, and hoping it would mimic their natural environment more.
 
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