A couple more of my balls

**Wild West Reptile** · 11-26-2011, 11:07 PM

WOW! These things just keep popping up in my tubs when I'm not looking!

It's like a magic ball python fairy!

This is my new 250 gram Female Spider and 800 gram Male Pastel. More to come soon!

SPIDER GIRL

PASTEL DUDE

**fl_orchidslave** · 11-26-2011, 11:53 PM

Great looking balls

If I were you, I'd keep an eye on that fairy

**KelliH** · 11-27-2011, 09:34 PM

Very nice! I'm kind of surprised that you want to work with Spiders, since they are very similar to the Enigma morph in leos. Beautiful morph though!

**Wild West Reptile** · 11-27-2011, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by KelliH

Very nice! I'm kind of surprised that you want to work with Spiders, since they are very similar to the Enigma morph in leos. Beautiful morph though!

It's funny you say that, I didn't think I wanted to work with them either. But then I happened to come across someone near me that needed to get rid of a couple of balls like yesterday. I talked to several ball python/gecko breeders and none of them seemed concerned at all with the spider morph. They did however have enough concern with enigmas to stop breeding them and get rid of them altogether out of their collections. So, I ended up taking them and one was this spider. She has a little "wobble", but has no problem feeding and it's a very mild case compared to some I've seen. It seems that the spider doesn't have problems thriving like a lot of enigmas do. I haven't heard of any cases where people had to put a spider down because it was not able to eat. I have heard of plenty of enigma's being culled because they can't even find their food bowl though. As far as I can see, the spider and the combos they make haven't been black listed and looked down upon like the enigmas have. Nobody complains about Spinners or Bumble bees or Lesser Bee's or any of the other combos they make. I have heard several warnings to stay away from the Caramel Ball Python. Anyhow, that's a whole different topic for a whole different thread and possibly different forum. Thanks for the compliments.

**BrightReptiles** · 11-27-2011, 11:01 PM

Very nice... Though, I'd be a bit uncomfortable if some little fairy kept playing with MY balls every time I got in the tub! But to each his own :P

Haha, hopefully you have a good sense of humor!

**fl_orchidslave** · 11-27-2011, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wild West Geckos

It's funny you say that, I didn't think I wanted to work with them either. But then I happened to come across someone near me that needed to get rid of a couple of balls like yesterday. I talked to several ball python/gecko breeders and none of them seemed concerned at all with the spider morph. They did however have enough concern with enigmas to stop breeding them and get rid of them altogether out of their collections. So, I ended up taking them and one was this spider. She has a little "wobble", but has no problem feeding and it's a very mild case compared to some I've seen. It seems that the spider doesn't have problems thriving like a lot of enigmas do. I haven't heard of any cases where people had to put a spider down because it was not able to eat. I have heard of plenty of enigma's being culled because they can't even find their food bowl though. As far as I can see, the spider and the combos they make haven't been black listed and looked down upon like the enigmas have. Nobody complains about Spinners or Bumble bees or Lesser Bee's or any of the other combos they make. I have heard several warnings to stay away from the Caramel Ball Python. Anyhow, that's a whole different topic for a whole different thread and possibly different forum. Thanks for the compliments.

Interesting comparison, now that it's been brought up. From what I've witnessed and talked with other breeders, the more out-crossing that's been done, seems to have lessened the issues for the spiders. Haven't heard of any of the problems with other morphs like bees either. It would be wonderful to see that in enigmas.

**KelliH** · 11-27-2011, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wild West Geckos

It's funny you say that, I didn't think I wanted to work with them either. But then I happened to come across someone near me that needed to get rid of a couple of balls like yesterday. I talked to several ball python/gecko breeders and none of them seemed concerned at all with the spider morph. They did however have enough concern with enigmas to stop breeding them and get rid of them altogether out of their collections. So, I ended up taking them and one was this spider. She has a little "wobble", but has no problem feeding and it's a very mild case compared to some I've seen. It seems that the spider doesn't have problems thriving like a lot of enigmas do. I haven't heard of any cases where people had to put a spider down because it was not able to eat. I have heard of plenty of enigma's being culled because they can't even find their food bowl though. As far as I can see, the spider and the combos they make haven't been black listed and looked down upon like the enigmas have. Nobody complains about Spinners or Bumble bees or Lesser Bee's or any of the other combos they make. I have heard several warnings to stay away from the Caramel Ball Python. Anyhow, that's a whole different topic for a whole different thread and possibly different forum. Thanks for the compliments.

Yeah, I know a lot about Spiders too. We used to breed ball pythons back when Spiders were still big bucks. Trust me, there's some that have major neurological issues, very similar to Enigmas and Jaguar Carpet Pythons. I think the reason Spiders have a bit less "issues" with feeding is because when tong feeding as we do with pythons, we are able to "direct" the pray item to where the snake believes it should be. Enigmas are exactly the same way, and that's why some keepers prefer to hand feed them, or tong feed them. I've never had any more problems getting baby Enigmas started than any other hatchling.

But yeah, Spiders make nice combos!

**KelliH** · 11-27-2011, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by fl_orchidslave

Interesting comparison, now that it's been brought up. From what I've witnessed and talked with other breeders, the more out-crossing that's been done, seems to have lessened the issues for the spiders. Haven't heard of any of the problems with other morphs like bees either. It would be wonderful to see that in enigmas.

Both of these statements are (unfortunately) not correct. Any Spider combo is still a Spider and the combos still act like Spiders. Spiders have been outcrossed for more than 10 years and being a co-dom but no super form (another thing they have in common with Enigmas!), they almost always are. Still, Spiders are Spiders and they can and do act "wonky". That's part of what makes them a "Spider".

**KelliH** · 11-27-2011, 11:38 PM

Here's an excellent thread about Spiders on ball-python.net-
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...there.../page2
Personally I love them, Killerbees are one of my favorite ball morphs.

**Wild West Reptile** · 11-27-2011, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by KelliH

I think the reason Spiders have a bit less "issues" with feeding is because when tong feeding as we do with pythons, we are able to "direct" the pray item to where the snake believes it should be. Enigmas are exactly the same way, and that's why some keepers prefer to hand feed them, or tong feed them.

So far all of the ball's I have including a few that haven't yet arrrived, are all frozen thawed fed which is awesome! But this little spider girl only likes live rats. She enjoys chasing them little buggers down. I am going to make an attempt to get her to tong feeding soon as well so I don't have to worry about any injuries to her. Thanks for your insight Kelli!