Questions for Building Gecko and Bearded Dragon Cages

[blsmit]

Currently my girlfriend and I own 3 leopard geckos. One is 5 months (Chewy) and the other two are 1 month old (Leia and Darth Vader aka Darth). Currently Chewy is housed alone in a 20 Gallon long (The Millennium Falcon aka The Falcon) on Tiles (2 12x12 and 2 6x6), and Leia and Darth are housed together in a 10 gallon on Repti Carpet. The original plan was to move Leia and Darth to The Falcon when they were of adult size (aprox. January). Is this wrong? Now however we are in search of a Bearded Dragon. We agreed to wait till January to purchase the Dragon due to the lack of space required. Lately we have been discussing building one large tank to house all of them.

I have to start out by saying that Tile is the best substrate for geckos. I put the 6x6 where chewy goes and take out that piece to clean every day and every week take them all out for a cleaning. The carpet is one of my least favorite (paper towels being my least, easy to clean but waste of money and not aesthetically pleasing). So, in a perfect world I would like to have both the leopard geckos and the bearded dragon on tiles.

I've been doing my research and understand that bearded dragons need height space as well as depth space. So building the dragon tank higher than the gecko tank does not bother me. Does ~32in seem like enough if the Geckos have ~16in? Also regarding dimensions I cannot figure out a safe way to build these tanks using two pieces of plywood. I would like one tank to be inside dimensions of 16inx24inx48in and the other 32inx24inx48in. Is this possible?

I was looking into using .5in plywood throughout. Is this thick enough or should it be .75in plywood? Also regarding the wood. How can I protect the wood against heat and humidity while still keeping the animals safe and keeping cost down?

I am mainly concerned about keeping the proper temperatures and humidity levels for both the Gecko's and Dragon. Can this be accomplished using an aluminum screen window? Also regarding temperatures. Would a dual socket security light fixture work well at maintaining proper heat? Also, how can I use an UTH on plywood? I imagine this catching on fire pretty quickly.

If it is impossible to use tile, I have found commercial vinyl tiles (similar to linoleum) that can be cut to size. These do not have adhesive backing. Once again I am concerned with heating. Can you heat these with a UTH? Also I am concerned because there is no texture to these they are extremely smooth, and would be difficult for a reptile to grab hold of. Is there a solution to this?

I am decently confident in following directions and wiring, so wiring flexwatt heat tape should not be an issue.

Sorry for the extremely long post and thank you for reading this and thanks in advance for replying.

blsmit

 

[Neo.Reptiliac]

What's the question I sort of missed it some how.
And this part of the forum is for How-To's. Like sharing directions how to do things.

 

[fikken]

As far as building a custom enclosure may look at converting a dress, cabinet or entertainment system as a frame base for construction. i have seen and aided in some very awsome projects that took some of the aforementioned items and converted them into useful reptile homes. I used to be in woodshop in school and students would pick up free furniture or old furniture they had acquired, striped them, restored them and converted to reptile enclosures. You can use either some sort of screen mesh, glass or plexiglass as the doors to the said enclosure. You can either make faucets for heat bulbs/emitters and or use heat strip running through the enclosure properly insulated. Even a small to medium night stand would have a nice starting frame to use. I'd look on craigslist, there are tons of free pieces of furniture or even on the side of roads too. You can use tile so long as the tile used works for the dimensions that you require

 

[blsmit]

Neo.Reptiliac. I assumed this was in the correct section due to my learning HOW TO build a proper cage. However if an administrator would like to move it I would have no issue. Also, I knew that this was going to be a long post so I intentionally italicized my questions, for ease of answering. And I would be more than willing to post my how to on how to make a cage from plywood.

fikken. I would love to find a dresser to use it would make my life SO much easier. But, I drive a mini cooper and my girlfriend drives a Subaru forester, so bringing the wood home separate is going to be a challenge. How can I avoid damaging the cage and/or the animal while using an UTH?

Thanks for the fast replies!

 

[sammer021486]

The original plan was to move Leia and Darth to The Falcon when they were of adult size (aprox. January). Is this wrong?

Personally I would separate the two young ones if you know that they are male and female. There are chances that the female will get pregnant and have issues because she is too young to be breed.

I have to start out by saying that Tile is the best substrate for geckos. I put the 6x6 where chewy goes and take out that piece to clean every day and every week take them all out for a cleaning.

Tiles are great, I use slate tiles in my custom enclosures because as you said they are easy to clean and disinfect

I've been doing my research and understand that bearded dragons need height space as well as depth space. So building the dragon tank higher than the gecko tank does not bother me. Does ~32in seem like enough if the Geckos have ~16in? Also regarding dimensions I cannot figure out a safe way to build these tanks using two pieces of plywood. I would like one tank to be inside dimensions of 16inx24inx48in and the other 32inx24inx48in. Is this possible?

For the leopard geckos height is not the issue it is the floor space. You could build the gecko's tank 8" high if you wanted to. If you decided to put an extra level in the tank than 16" is great for that.

My original tank that I built was 48"L x 22"D x 20"H. I sold it as a beardie tank when the design for it became unpractical for where I had it placed in my house.

I was looking into using .5in plywood throughout. Is this thick enough or should it be .75in plywood? Also regarding the wood. How can I protect the wood against heat and humidity while still keeping the animals safe and keeping cost down?

You will need a non-toxic water proof stain or paint. Bathroom paints are normally not good to use because they have a resistance to mold chemicals in them. Many people in the UK use boat stain because it is non-toxic and water proof.

I personally use Melamine, because a sheet of melamine is already coated with the plastic and is also fine for resisting heat warp and the melamine peeling because of the heat. If I require it to be water proof I use an aquarium safe silicon to seal up the inside, because the melamine will expand if it stays wet for long periods of time.

I am mainly concerned about keeping the proper temperatures and humidity levels for both the Gecko's and Dragon. Can this be accomplished using an aluminum screen window? Also regarding temperatures. Would a dual socket security light fixture work well at maintaining proper heat? Also, how can I use an UTH on plywood? I imagine this catching on fire pretty quickly.

I can not recommend anything for the beardie's care, but for the gecko. I use plexi-glass as the lower viewing window and then just above the window I have two screen doors, which provides access and air flow. I have not had an issue with heating with this design

If the wood is going to catch fire your gecko is long gone by then if it can not escape the heat. Paper's flash point is something like 300F, I am not sure what woods flash point is but I suspect that it will be a lot higher than paper, a leopard gecko should not be kept higher than 95F in my opinion.

If it is impossible to use tile, I have found commercial vinyl tiles (similar to linoleum) that can be cut to size. These do not have adhesive backing. Once again I am concerned with heating. Can you heat these with a UTH? Also I am concerned because there is no texture to these they are extremely smooth, and would be difficult for a reptile to grab hold of. Is there a solution to this?

I have been successfully using slate tiles over my exo-terra heat mats in my melamine tanks for 3.5 years now. I have not had an issue with the mat over heating or the tank getting too hot. I regulate my mats to 90F with a thermostat.

The best way to ensure that you can use the tile is to get your tiles and then build the tank around the tiles, if you have no way of cutting the tiles.

 

[blsmit]

sammer021486: Thank you very much for your helpful advice. I was thinking of using linoleum, but just today I read that it creates toxic fumes when heated. So I'm back to using tile, but I'm worried about the wood not fitting.

I purchased the two babies from p.co. I've been trying to sex them since I got them, and both appear to be female. I'm not overly worried. I can't image p.co housing male adults together yet alone keeping any males.

[Q]Bathroom paints are normally not good to use because they have a resistance to mold chemicals in them[/Q]

Don't you mean Are normally Good?

[Q]I personally use Melamine, because a sheet of melamine is already coated with the plastic and is also fine for resisting heat warp and the melamine peeling because of the heat.[/Q]

I would like to use Melamine, but isn't that extremely heavy, and I wouldn't want to have left overs for just two bottoms? (1 piece plywood for sides and top, 1 piece melamine for bottoms.)

I think the new plan is to purchase the tiles and build around them. That makes way more sense than guess and probably ending up short or long on something.

Thank you very much for you fast response once again.

Also, what size heat mat would you suggest if using under tiles?

 

[sammer021486]

I purchased the two babies from p.co. I've been trying to sex them since I got them, and both appear to be female. I'm not overly worried. I can't image p.co housing male adults together yet alone keeping any males.

The employees from chain stores do not have a lot of information on the care and keeping of the animals they carry.

It all depends on their age, you say that yours are 1 month old. So unless you can be sure of their sex I would separate, but you can leave them in together.

[Q]Bathroom paints are normally not good to use because they have a resistance to mold chemicals in them[/Q]

Don't you mean Are normally Good?

No, because the chemicals that help prevent and resist mold can be toxic to your gecko.

[Q]I personally use Melamine, because a sheet of melamine is already coated with the plastic and is also fine for resisting heat warp and the melamine peeling because of the heat.[/Q]

I would like to use Melamine, but isn't that extremely heavy, and I wouldn't want to have left overs for just two bottoms? (1 piece plywood for sides and top, 1 piece melamine for bottoms.)

I use the melamine for the entire tank and you are right is it heavier than plywood. My benefit of using melamine is that it does not require any paint and it costs the same as purchasing the plywood (in my situation), but the real benefit is that it does not require any drying time. I just build the tank, wash it out and have the geckos in the tank the same day.

It has been a while since I bought a 4'x8'x5/8" sheet of melamine, but I think that I paid $25 for it. A sheet of plywood at the same store would have cost me the same price for a 4'x8'x1/2", then I would have also had to buy the stain.

I think the new plan is to purchase the tiles and build around them. That makes way more sense than guess and probably ending up short or long on something.

Best idea if you do not want to cut the tiles. Lay them out on the building material and then measure the dimensions of the tiles on the material so that you get the perfect fit.

Also, what size heat mat would you suggest if using under tiles?

I use 11 x 17 exo-terra heat mats in my 23.5" L x 22" D x 14" H tanks. Heat tape is not insured in Canada so I use heat mats and the 11" x 17" mat is the largest I can buy. The exo-terras are thin and fit nicely under the slate tiles in my tanks. The reason I use the exo-terra is because the extension cord is attached to the corner and makes it perfect for placing the mat in the corner or along the back wall.

The general rule is 1/2 the tank is covered by the heat mat.

 

[blsmit]

So I think I've got all the wood items down. Home Depot sells Melamine wood for $33.57 at 49x97x3/4. If I purchase 2 boards I can build one cage that is for the Bearded Dragon at inside dimensions 47 1/4x 23 10/16x 30, and one cage for the Leopard Geckos at inside dimensions47 1/4x 23 10/16x 14. The only reason this works is because the tile is measuring 11 13/16 +/- 3/16, As long as the tiles are ~11 13/16, this dimension will work perfectly.

The only issue now is wiring light fixtures and maintaining temperatures. I'm going to create screen windows with some 1/2x1 wood and aluminum screens, to get some air circulation. My questions should now pertain to wiring, and heating. I would really like to use something similar to flood lights for heat lighting and regular lighting. Doe anyone have any suggestions for lighting and how to wire it?

 

[fikken]

well like i said if you cant transport something large you can always get a nice night stand, even i can fit one in my passenger seat and my car is cramped

 

[blsmit]

I first wanted to thank everyone who responded. Your advice has been extremely helpful. I have one remaining question. In order to save a few bucks, (since wood alone is $67!) I think I'm going to run Flexwatt heat tape under tile. From Bean Farm I will purchase two feet of the 17in wide, run one foot under each cage. Will this be enough? I have one Zilla Temperature Control. (The kind that has a probe and plugs for the UTH, Lights etc., and knob to set temperature.) If I plug both of these in and set the probe on the lower cages floor, will this work well? I have two thermometers with probes, and will hopefully be picking up a infrared thermometer gun.

Once again your help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sammer021486]

I first wanted to thank everyone who responded. Your advice has been extremely helpful. I have one remaining question. In order to save a few bucks, (since wood alone is $67!) I think I'm going to run Flexwatt heat tape under tile. From Bean Farm I will purchase two feet of the 17in wide, run one foot under each cage. Will this be enough? I have one Zilla Temperature Control. (The kind that has a probe and plugs for the UTH, Lights etc., and knob to set temperature.) If I plug both of these in and set the probe on the lower cages floor, will this work well? I have two thermometers with probes, and will hopefully be picking up a infrared thermometer gun.

Once again your help would be greatly appreciated.

You can run as many mats off the thermostat as it will allow.

Right now I have two Zoomed 500R thermostats that control 2 mats each. I have successfully ran an 8"x8" (8W) and a 11"x17" (25W) heat mat off the same thermostat and had the same temps from both mats, the 500R thermostat can handle a total load of 500W (both thermostats are now hooked up to control mats that are equal in wattage).

If your leopard gecko tank is going to be a community tank you are going to need enough heat tape to cover 1/2 of the total floor area, so basically 24" is required just for the gecko's tank. As for the beardies tank, I don't know. But your thermostat should be able to handle both mats. You will just have to adjust the thermostat so that you get an average of the temperature for the higher and lower tank. I suspect that your gecko tank will be sitting on top of the beardies so aim for the correct temp in the gecko's tank, because it will be running a little bit hotter than the beardie's tank

 

[Angel]

IM new with the leos but have years experience with beardys, Just keep in mind you need to keep higher temps with the beardys than the leos for an adult beardy 95-105f for a baby 100-110f and keep humidity low , not sure if you were planning to use screen for a side but it may let alot of heat escape youmight be better off using a peice of plexiglass for the front {its relatively inepensive } using the screen for the top is fine and you can sit your heat lamp and uva/b light on it. dont use anyheat source from the bottom of the beardys tank there stomaches are very sensitive and they arent able to regulate there temperature there and there have been cases of beardys getting burned unfortunately they dont know they are getting burned until its too late.
Tile works great for them it holds heat and is easy to clean use a natural stone tile I have one ith a bit of texture just make sure its nonporus otherwise you need to seal it so it doesnt harbour any bacteria.
Hope this helped a bit , If you have anything about beardys that I can help you with feel free to Pm me , Like I said I know alot about them but still learning with my leos.

 

[blsmit]

so basically 24" is required just for the gecko's tank

If I run two 11" in parallel with some space would that work?

I suspect that your gecko tank will be sitting on top of the beardies so aim for the correct temp in the gecko's tank, because it will be running a little bit hotter than the beardie's tank

Actually I was going to put the bearded on top because his temperatures need to be hotter, and it would be better use of heat to put him on top.

not sure if you were planning to use screen for a side but it may let alot of heat escape youmight be better off using a peice of plexiglass for the front {its relatively inepensive } using the screen for the top is fine and you can sit your heat lamp and uva/b light on it.

I was going to cut rectangles with aluminum screen on the sides and back of both of the tanks, probably about 4x12 for each sides and 2x24 in the back. I was planning on using plexiglass on the front of both cages. However now I'm thinking I might not use as much wood on top of the dragon cage and use more screen so I can put the lights on top. Also is there a difference (other than price) between a regular spot light dome and a reptile spot light dome? And since were on the topic, how many lights do I need for a cage this large? 3, two heat for each end, and one uva/b?

I think thats all the questions for today, but thanks once again to sammer021486 and Angel.

 

[Angel]

whatever dome you want to get is fine you just need to check the max wattage for that hood, I woud try 2 heat lamps one on each end focused on a basking spot and you want the temps like i said 90-110 depending on the age of the dragon and have your cool spot in the middle around 75-80 thats how i have mine set up and it works great and i keep the long tube uva/b light over the cool area where i keep her salad bowl.
But you could do one side of the tank the basking area and one side coo i just find it easier than having to cram my heat lamps on one side since the tank is so long.
I woud realy think aboput not using screen on thebeardys cage atleast and either wood on all sides and use plexi for the front or find someway to cover the screen on the back maybe a background as i think it will effect your heat in a big way it will be hard to keep the temps up especialy when the weather cools down .