Some morph questions

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
I'm looking to get into AFTs and the morphs, but first I'm doing a lot of research. And this is leading to some questions that I can't seem to find the answers for.

To start with, is granite a morph, or just a speckly normal? As in, is it recessive/co-dom/dom? What happens if a granite is bred to a normal?

And what is the difference between amel, tangerine amel, and peach amel? Is it a genetic difference? Are the tangerine/peach seen in normals too? I've seen ads for "Tangerine AFTs". Is it just a difference in colour?

Lastly, is the white-foot morph genetic? Recessive/co-dom/dom?

I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I get deeper into this. I'm trying to figure out what morphs to get to start my breeding group.

Many thanks,
Melanie
 

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
I've kept researching, and it seems that granites are a non-genetic pattern-type, but that breeding for the trait can produce more outstanding granites. Am I correct?

And it looks like white-foot is recessive?
 

EverEvolvingExotics

New Member
Messages
394
Location
Arizona
I'm looking to get into AFTs and the morphs, but first I'm doing a lot of research. And this is leading to some questions that I can't seem to find the answers for.

To start with, is granite a morph, or just a speckly normal? As in, is it recessive/co-dom/dom? What happens if a granite is bred to a normal?

And what is the difference between amel, tangerine amel, and peach amel? Is it a genetic difference? Are the tangerine/peach seen in normals too? I've seen ads for "Tangerine AFTs". Is it just a difference in colour?

Lastly, is the white-foot morph genetic? Recessive/co-dom/dom?

I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I get deeper into this. I'm trying to figure out what morphs to get to start my breeding group.

Many thanks,
Melanie

Granite is a line bred trait. You can breed granite to any morph and keep the best examples of them back for future projects to produce the traits you are interested in working with. Tangerines are also a line bred trait, they consist of a very bright orange geckos but the degree of tangerine varies. If you continue to line breed them you can end up with striking animals. The difference between all the Amels are again all different lines of line breeding them. Breeders found a color they were interested in and kept breeding for that trait with every generation. At the moment the only non-line bred trait found to be compatible with Amels are White Socks. White Socks are a form of piebaldism which is a recessive trait.

Almost all of the current morphs available to the public are recessive. Hopefully this year and following after more dominant and co-dominant animals will be available for projects as well as new recessive traits. The only one that is proven to be a co-dominant morph is a whiteout. At this time the super form has been lethal. I still have my fingers crossed with time a super whiteout will survive, they are truly amazing looking. There are also Zeros/Stingers that were originally considered co-dominant but it was recently released by JMG as a recessive. It's complicated at this time but I will be working with these this year and I'm excited to research it further. They have ton of potential and make for some amazing combos.

Hopefully that made sense. The coffee hasn't quite kicked in.

Do a ton of research and pick the ones you like the most. They are a very rewarding species with a ton of future potential. I for one cannot wait to see what the future holds.
 
Last edited:

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
Thank you very much for the reply. I would not have thought of white socks as being a form of pied, that's very neat. It only affects the feet?

I had Zeros down as co-dom, but they're recessive with a super form? And from JMG's blog, not all have the super form? Can someone please explain, or give me an example of a similar ball or leo morph?

I have a few more questions:
- Are aberrant and granite different words for the same thing? Or does aberrant need to have the broken banding while granite is the speckles?
- I have seen oreos referred to as both anery and axanthic. Are they either? Or something different? And are there other anery/axanthic morphs?
- I have found multiple types of albinos (albino, caramel albino, T+ albino, jungle albino) talked about. I know the caramel albino and regular albino are quite different because the caramel can cross with other recessives, while the regular albino seems to be a fatal gene. Does anyone know what types of albinos exist and what they're called? It's not a huge question though.

My current list of existing morphs is (alphabetically):
Aberrant (line-bred)
Albino (recessive)
Amel (recessive)
Anery (see Oreo?)
Axanthic (see Oreo?)
Caramel Albino (recessive)
Calico (does it exist?)
Ghost (recessive)
Granite (pattern)
Jungle Albino/Amel (is jungle a morph)
Oreo (recessive)
Patternless (recessive)
Peach (line bred)
Stripe (co-dom, no super)
T+ Albino (see Albino?)
Whiteout (co-dom, super fatal)
White Sock (recessive)
Zero (co-dom?, super)
Zulu (recessive)

Does anyone see anything to add, or to correct?

Many thanks. I'm enjoying my research into these morphs and I really appreciate the help.
 

EverEvolvingExotics

New Member
Messages
394
Location
Arizona
Thank you very much for the reply. I would not have thought of white socks as being a form of pied, that's very neat. It only affects the feet?

I had Zeros down as co-dom, but they're recessive with a super form? And from JMG's blog, not all have the super form? Can someone please explain, or give me an example of a similar ball or leo morph?

I have a few more questions:
- Are aberrant and granite different words for the same thing? Or does aberrant need to have the broken banding while granite is the speckles?
- I have seen oreos referred to as both anery and axanthic. Are they either? Or something different? And are there other anery/axanthic morphs?
- I have found multiple types of albinos (albino, caramel albino, T+ albino, jungle albino) talked about. I know the caramel albino and regular albino are quite different because the caramel can cross with other recessives, while the regular albino seems to be a fatal gene. Does anyone know what types of albinos exist and what they're called? It's not a huge question though.

My current list of existing morphs is (alphabetically):
Aberrant (line-bred)
Albino (recessive)
Amel (recessive)
Anery (see Oreo?)
Axanthic (see Oreo?)
Caramel Albino (recessive)
Calico (does it exist?)
Ghost (recessive)
Granite (pattern)
Jungle Albino/Amel (is jungle a morph)
Oreo (recessive)
Patternless (recessive)
Peach (line bred)
Stripe (co-dom, no super)
T+ Albino (see Albino?)
Whiteout (co-dom, super fatal)
White Sock (recessive)
Zero (co-dom?, super)
Zulu (recessive)

Does anyone see anything to add, or to correct?

Many thanks. I'm enjoying my research into these morphs and I really appreciate the help.

You're just as confused on the Zero/Stingers as everyone else. I'm just going to go with unknown. I can see where JMG is coming from but I also still understand other breeders continuing calling them co-doms. It's really up in the air. I don't think there are enough people out there working with them to go one way or another. There is a giant thread on the morph section about it. It's an incredibly long read but worth it. You can read it here: http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=86711&page=6

Granite isn't a pattern it's a line bred trait. Aberrant means departing from an accepted standard. There are three different patterns in fat tails, banded, striped, and aberrant. Aberrant is just a unique broken up pattern. I don't believe one can breed for an aberrant pattern it's just something that pops up here and there. I find them very cool.

Here is a picture of my two female poss het caramels when I first got them. The top one is aberrant and the bottom one is banded.

IMG_2173_2.jpg


I changed some things to what I know as correct. Hopefully others will come on here for some input. I made my changes in bold.

My current list of existing morphs is (alphabetically):
Aberrant (random occurance)
Albino (recessive)- same thing as amel
Amel (recessive)- same things as albino
Anery (never heard of an oreo being referred to as an Anery)
Axanthic (same thing as an Oreo)
Caramel Albino (recessive)
Calico (does it exist?)- It's currently being proved out by Alex and David
Ghost (recessive)
Granite (line bred)
Jungle Albino/Amel (never heard of it)
Oreo (recessive)
Patternless (recessive)
Peach (line bred) another form of an amel/albino
Stripe (dominant, co-dom means there is a super form)
T+ Albino (never heard of it in fat tails)
Whiteout (co-dom, super fatal)
White Sock (recessive)
Zero (JMG released it was recessive, others think it's a co-dom UKN)
Zulu (recessive)

Again, it's early for me hopefully this makes sense! :main_robin:
 

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
Fantastic, thank you for the link to that thread, it helps. The idea that it could be line-bred, co-dom, and/or recessive is interesting. I'm excited to hear more about this morph as breeders work with it. Very neat.

I knew the granite was line-bred, I'm just stupid and wrote "pattern" instead -.-'

I had no idea that aberrant could show up anytime. JMG is line-breeding for more consistent aberrants, but does that mean those lines would also throw regulars?

Do peach and tangerine have to be attached to the albino gene? I've seen normals that are called tangerine advertised. This is just a regular albino gene being bred for a specific colour, correct?

If albino and amel are the same, are JMG's albino and Urban's amel the same gene? Urban also has the caramel albino gene. The caramel albino looks more like JMG's albino. Urban says the reason it's an amel is the black eyes, and that the caramel albino is another type of amel. Do you know if JMG's albino has red eyes? I can't tell from the photos online.

Thank you for the edits. Some of the morphs (jungle, T+, calico) were just ones I found mentioned on my online searches. I'm very glad the calico is real and is being proven. I'm a huge calico fan.

Again, a huge thank you for the replies. It's a big help.
 

EverEvolvingExotics

New Member
Messages
394
Location
Arizona
Fantastic, thank you for the link to that thread, it helps. The idea that it could be line-bred, co-dom, and/or recessive is interesting. I'm excited to hear more about this morph as breeders work with it. Very neat.

I knew the granite was line-bred, I'm just stupid and wrote "pattern" instead -.-'

I had no idea that aberrant could show up anytime. JMG is line-breeding for more consistent aberrants, but does that mean those lines would also throw regulars?

Do peach and tangerine have to be attached to the albino gene? I've seen normals that are called tangerine advertised. This is just a regular albino gene being bred for a specific colour, correct?

If albino and amel are the same, are JMG's albino and Urban's amel the same gene? Urban also has the caramel albino gene. The caramel albino looks more like JMG's albino. Urban says the reason it's an amel is the black eyes, and that the caramel albino is another type of amel. Do you know if JMG's albino has red eyes? I can't tell from the photos online.

Thank you for the edits. Some of the morphs (jungle, T+, calico) were just ones I found mentioned on my online searches. I'm very glad the calico is real and is being proven. I'm a huge calico fan.

Again, a huge thank you for the replies. It's a big help.

I really like Zeros I think that they have ton of potential with other genes. Whether they end up recessive or co-dom I'm really excited to be working with them once they arrive (hopefully in the next month or so).

I do remember seeing JMG having a breeding project for aberrants. I'm not sure what the goal of it is but the animals in the group were quite unique and I hope something comes from it.

Albinos are the common term for the majority of reptiles regarding that trait. I've seen more people use the term Amels over Albinos when talking about Fat Tails that it's the term I've adopted. Amels have been around for an incredibly long time. New wild caught amels are constantly being imported. I'm pretty sure each breeder has their own line, but I could be wrong.

Caramel Albinos and regular Amels are completely different from their base color, to their eye color, to the compatibility with other genes. I really like both genes but the caramels just have a lot more potential which is why I'm focusing on them more. I still want to work with Amels just not on a large scale since they are completely limited with combos. Different shades of color such as tangerine are not specific to Amels. You can find them in normals and almost every morph since it's a line bred trait. I'm waiting on getting 3 tangerine striped patternless females once the weather cools down enough for shipping to be safe.
 

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
I can't wait to see photos of the geckos you're getting. Are you breeding much yet? And do you have a website or photobucket or such? I really appreciate the help, you've already saved me countless hours of googling things. It's hard to find good information on AFT morphs, I guess because they're so new.

My current list:
Aberrant (random, line-bred)
---JMG (L)
Albino (recessive)
---JMG (L)
Amel (recessive)
---Urban (L)
Caramel Albino (recessive)
---Urban (L)
Calico (?)
---Alex & David (N/A)
Ghost (recessive)
---Urban (O)
Granite (line-bred)
---JMG (L)
Oreo (recessive)
---Urban (O)
Patternless (recessive)
---JMG (O)
---Urban (M)
Peach (line bred)
---? (L)
Stripe (dominant)
---JMG (L)
---Urban (L)
Tangerine (line-bred)
---? (L)
Whiteout (co-dom, super fatal)
---JMG (H-O)
---Urban (M)
White Sock (recessive)
---? (?)
Zero (co-dom/recessive?, super)
---JMG (H-O)
---Urban (?)
Zulu (recessive)
---Urban (O)

Breeders:
---JMG
---Urban
---...

Costs:
L Low $0-$499
M Moderate $500-$999
H High $1000-$1499
O Ouch $2000+

I only have the 2 sources because I used those websites to compile the list. The price guide is to help me figure out what I can afford to start with. I'm planning to order from Urban when they update their availability. After that I'll be collecting from other breeders. Let me know when you have some babies available.

Is there anything I should add/correct on this list now? And can you recommend some other good breeders to check out? Obviously I can't buy everything at once, but it's always good to know who the great breeders are to watch for.
 

GeckoFiend

New Member
Messages
41
Location
Racine, WI
Keep in mind that there are several smaller breeders out there and you can typically find better deals from them. The ads at the top of this page are a great start.
 

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
I'm working on those links. Problem is I'm in Canada. Importing small shipments is a bit of a waste. I'll work through them all though.
 

EverEvolvingExotics

New Member
Messages
394
Location
Arizona
I can't wait to see photos of the geckos you're getting. Are you breeding much yet? And do you have a website or photobucket or such? I really appreciate the help, you've already saved me countless hours of googling things. It's hard to find good information on AFT morphs, I guess because they're so new.

My current list:
Aberrant (random, line-bred)
---JMG (L)
Albino (recessive)
---JMG (L)
Amel (recessive)
---Urban (L)
Caramel Albino (recessive)
---Urban (L)
Calico (?)
---Alex & David (N/A)
Ghost (recessive)
---Urban (O)
Granite (line-bred)
---JMG (L)
Oreo (recessive)
---Urban (O)
Patternless (recessive)
---JMG (O)
---Urban (M)
Peach (line bred)
---? (L)
Stripe (dominant)
---JMG (L)
---Urban (L)
Tangerine (line-bred)
---? (L)
Whiteout (co-dom, super fatal)
---JMG (H-O)
---Urban (M)
White Sock (recessive)
---? (?)
Zero (co-dom/recessive?, super)
---JMG (H-O)
---Urban (?)
Zulu (recessive)
---Urban (O)

Breeders:
---JMG
---Urban
---...

Costs:
L Low $0-$499
M Moderate $500-$999
H High $1000-$1499
O Ouch $2000+

I only have the 2 sources because I used those websites to compile the list. The price guide is to help me figure out what I can afford to start with. I'm planning to order from Urban when they update their availability. After that I'll be collecting from other breeders. Let me know when you have some babies available.

Is there anything I should add/correct on this list now? And can you recommend some other good breeders to check out? Obviously I can't buy everything at once, but it's always good to know who the great breeders are to watch for.

I currently only have 6 Fat Tails which all came from Chris West at Wild West Reptile. Out of those I'll probably only be breeding my male Whiteout poss het Caramel to my Caramel female and my 2 big normal girls. The rest I want to wait until they are of size. Arizona summers aren't the best to ship reptiles. I'm waiting for 13 more (maybe a few more) of various base morphs and a few combos to come from David Deem at Shenandoah Reptiles and Nick Puppo at Lecko My Gecko. I'm looking forward to producing some awesome combos in the next few years.

I haven't seen JMG or Urban Gecko add or change anything on their website for quite some time on the availability section. I think the best thing you can do when it comes closer to your purchase is directly contact the breeder(s) that you want to buy from to see if they have exactly what you want. It's hard to constantly update websites and is just easier to know exactly what's available by contacting them. Here are some other breeders off the top of my head that work with Fat Tails.

Wild West Reptile
Shenandoah Reptiles
Imperial Reptile
Gecko Babies
Geckos Ect.
Ohio Gecko
Specialty Reptile
Pac Herp
Garrick Demeyer (crestedgecko.com)
Lecko My Gecko
Luxurious Leopards

Sorry if I'm forgetting anybody, I know there are more.
 

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
I contacted Urban and Craig says he'll update his AFT availability for me. At the time I wasn't sure what exactly I wanted to get, but I have a better idea now. Thanks for the list, I'll look into them. Being in Canada kindof sucks for this reason, but I'll just have to order a lot to import at once, lol. Excuse for buying more.
 

EverEvolvingExotics

New Member
Messages
394
Location
Arizona
Cool, I'm glad you got them to update their site! It almost always works out better for both ends when a buyer is buying a nice sized group. The seller is able to unload a bunch of geckos all at once saving time and effort and the buyer is normally able to receive a nice discount. Good luck hunting, and make sure to keep us posted on what you decide.
 

EverEvolvingExotics

New Member
Messages
394
Location
Arizona
I meant to come on here awhile back but one thing lead to another and I never got around to it. I need to correct my mistake and state the aberrant gene IS line bred not a random phenomenon.
 

Fatal_S

Mel's Exotics
Messages
147
Location
Winnipeg, MB
Ah, alright, I will correct that, thanks :) I'm still waiting on the update. If his schedule was right, another week till I can pick out some fatties. Hope so. I'm so impatient now that I have money burning a hole in my pocket.
 

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