Stinger

[sickygnar89]

Is this morph co-dominant or recessive? Cause I have seen some geckos labeled as het stingers. Thank you.

 

[EverEvolvingExotics]

There is a lot of confusion to some but it's a co-dominant trait not recessive.

 

[Imperial Geckos]

Here is a video I made on the Zero gene. A stinger is just a banded Zero, so the same things apply. Hope this helps!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdSyS4TpLtU

 

[specialtyreptile]

There is a lot of confusion to some but it's a co-dominant trait not recessive.

Not completely accurate... The jury is still out and untill JMG shares their breeding data we will not have a definate answer.

According to breeding trials by Ohio Gecko, the trait has been working in a recessive mannor with non visual stinger/zero producing "Super" or Homozigous patternless animals. If this is the case than Stinger/zero = Highly variable marker that is attached to the Recessive Patternless line. (Similar to Het Pied Ball Pythons)

 

[Carinata]

Stingers and Zeros are Co-Dominant. I proved this when I bred a Whiteout Zero to a Zero and produced a plain old Whiteout. If it was recessive I would have produced all Zero and Zero combos. Some people claim it's recessive when in reality they are wrong. They claim breeding a het Stinger to a het Stinger will give you both Stingers and Super Stingers. That's like saying if you breed a het Amel to het Amel you'll get Amels and Super Amels. Makes no sense!

 

[Imperial Geckos]

Not completely accurate... The jury is still out and untill JMG shares their breeding data we will not have a definate answer.

Here is a direct quote from the update posted on JMG's website on 5/18 about their Hidden Gene Zeros...

" We took the offspring (from Hidden gene group) from our breeding's and bred them to some nice zeros in our collection. After a few eggs hatched we seen a really intense crazy patterned zero that developed into a strikingly ghostly looking zero with a ultra wide stripe down the back. As more eggs hatched from the group we produced a few other zeros that ended up having extra wide stripes, hazy bright colors, and distorted body pattern. " (http://jmgreptile.com/morphupdates.html)

This shows that JMG produced Zeros and HG Zero's first generation when crossed to apparently normal geckos that had never been crossed to Zeros before.

When JMG first bred the Zero to normals, they either got Zeros or didn't, since they did apparently produce Zeros from that, and this is backed up by the quote above...Then, when they bred Zero x Zero later they produced a Super Zero...leading it to be Co-dom... with added weirdness of "Zero siblings" being able to produce supers when bred together or to Zeros.

 

[Carinata]

They either produced in the F1 or they didn't..... It's nonsensical to say a het to het breeding produces 2 phenotypes.

 

[Imperial Geckos]

If this is the case than Stinger/zero = Highly variable marker that is attached to the Recessive Patternless line. (Similar to Het Pied Ball Pythons)

I can see this being the case. But the fact that Normal looking sibs can produce Supers when crossed together or to other Zeros/Stingers is nothing new. This has been known for a few years now.

The fact that Zero and Stingers (the heterozygous form of the Super Zero) are being refereed to as recessive is causing lots confusion.

If anything, it should be the Super Zero/Stinger (homozygous form) that should be considere recessive, not the Zero/Stinger.

 

[Carinata]

If it was like a het Pied you would be saying breeding het Pied to Het Pied gives you Pieds and Super Pieds.....

 

[EverEvolvingExotics]

Not completely accurate... The jury is still out and untill JMG shares their breeding data we will not have a definate answer.

According to breeding trials by Ohio Gecko, the trait has been working in a recessive mannor with non visual stinger/zero producing "Super" or Homozigous patternless animals. If this is the case than Stinger/zero = Highly variable marker that is attached to the Recessive Patternless line. (Similar to Het Pied Ball Pythons)

JMG isn't the only one working with Stingers and Zeros. Alex and David have already proved that they are co-dominant. The thought of them being recessive is mind blowing to me. :main_huh: The way that Ohio Gecko explains it being recessive doesn't make sense. Read what David wrote below, that's how Ohio Gecko is explaining it. How is that even being considered a possibility? Fat Tails are already confusing for some and by posting ads stating that zeros/stingers are recessive morphs is just making it worse.

If it was like a het Pied you would be saying breeding het Pied to Het Pied gives you Pieds and Super Pieds.....

:main_yes:

 

[Carinata]

I wonder if I can make Super Duper Zeros when I breed Super Zero to Super Zero?

 

[specialtyreptile]

If anything, it should be the Super Zero/Stinger (homozygous form) that should be considere recessive, not the Zero/Stinger.

Agreed, The "patternless" form would be recessive with the Hets having substantial markers. And other hets not having markers at all.

 

[EverEvolvingExotics]

I wonder if I can make Super Duper Zeros when I breed Super Zero to Super Zero?

That won't happen, you'll get het pieds...

 

[Carinata]

Agreed, The "patternless" form would be recessive with the Hets having substantial markers. And other hets not having markers at all.

It's still Co-Dom.....

That won't happen, you'll get het pieds...

Het Pieds and Super Amels!

 

[specialtyreptile]

If it was like a het Pied you would be saying breeding het Pied to Het Pied gives you Pieds and Super Pieds.....

This is a misunderstanding of what I am saying!

JMG has also stated that they have produced Zeros from non-zero animals!

Follow the Logic:

Het Pied x Normal will produce Het pieds and Normals, since Het pieds have markers you can pick out the most probable cantidates and have a good chance at producing pieds from poss hets.

Super Zero(Patternless)x Normal = All Zeros(Het Patternless) with strong "markers"

Zero(het Patternless) x normal = Zeros(Het Patternless) and normals, Some of the Zero offspring carry markers and some do not!

Zero(het Patternless) x Zero sib(normal looking/Het patternless) = Super Zero(patternless) Zero (het patternless) and normals.

Polygenic or linebred traits are stronger when bred to the same trait but when outcrossed the trait may not be as visible but is still there. This is why when Tangerine x Normal you have faint tangerine offspring and when you breed Tangerine x Tang Offspring you get a better looking Tangerine.

If you look at the Zero/stinger trait as a Poligenic trait and not a Dom/Recessive trait you have a "Patternless" line of Gecko with seperate linebred trait attached. This also explains why the Patternless and "Super Zero/Stinger" are Fairly Identicle

 

[Wild West Reptile]

I don't work with these guys, for various reasons, but I would have to say that they are Co-dom based simply on basic genetics. David bred visual to visual and got some animals that were not visuals. That wouldn't happen if you breed a visual Zulu to Zulu (which are recessive), you would get ALL Zulu's. That's how it works. I have yet to see a recessive morph produce a super form. It just doesn't work that way and to claim that all of a sudden these animals are recessive and are creating supers is mind boggling….and confusing people. If this were the case, then there would be Super Ghosts, Super Zulus, Super Patty's and in the Ball Python world, we would have Super Clowns, Super Albinos, Super Pieds, etc, etc……

As cool as that would be, it just doesn't make sense genetically. Sorry, but if they are producing Super forms, they are Co-dom. I don't see why it's even being discussed.

 

[Carinata]

That's what Thad's telling people though! If it was line bred all the offspring would inherit some type of degree of the pattern. I can pick a Zero sib out like it's nobodys business. Zero sibs are visually different, and that's why it's co-dom. Zero sibs are aberrant very dark animals. Every single one of them.

 

[specialtyreptile]

Zero(het Patternless) x Zero sib(normal looking/Het patternless) = Super Zero(patternless) Zero (het patternless) and normals.

This is what i believe Ohio Gecko is experiancing.

If i am so wrong than how do you geneticly explain Zero x Normal producing a Super???

 

[Carinata]

This is what i believe Ohio Gecko is experiancing.

If i am so wrong than how do you geneticly explain Zero x Normal producing a Super???

Zero by Zero Sib ( a dark Aberrant animal that carries the gene)

 

[specialtyreptile]

I don't work with these guys, for various reasons, but I would have to say that they are Co-dom based simply on basic genetics. David bred visual to visual and got some animals that were not visuals. That wouldn't happen if you breed a visual Zulu to Zulu (which are recessive), you would get ALL Zulu's. That's how it works. I have yet to see a recessive morph produce a super form. It just doesn't work that way and to claim that all of a sudden these animals are recessive and are creating supers is mind boggling….and confusing people. If this were the case, then there would be Super Ghosts, Super Zulus, Super Patty's and in the Ball Python world, we would have Super Clowns, Super Albinos, Super Pieds, etc, etc……

As cool as that would be, it just doesn't make sense genetically. Sorry, but if they are producing Super forms, they are Co-dom. I don't see why it's even being discussed.

Again this is mis quoting what i was saying. I never said Zero was the Homozygus form of a recessive gene. I was saying that Zero is the Heterazygote.