About eyes...

[Daylight_Thieves]

I have read both of the "underdeveloped eye" threads and it sparked a question that I had about it.

I was thinking about getting a leopard gecko that was born without eyes. It seems to be fine otherwise, according to the breeder, apart from the fact that it can't see. He is going to try hand feeding her to see if that works because I HATE the idea of killing it because of an unhelpful birth trait.

I WOULD NOT breed her regardless, I just want her because she is beautifully colored and she should be allowed to live, or at least try to. She wouldn't be shipped to me until she is at least 10g so I will at least know that she is eating and the breeder also tell me how and what she was being fed so I know how to feed her.

My question is, because she is without eyes, is it worse than having one with defected eyes or is it just like having any other pet that has a disabled sense?

Also, any ideas on how to help make a safe environment for her and such is helpful too!

It is decided that it WILL NOT BE KILLED!!! I don't want that kind of advice!

 

[M_surinamensis]

 

[Tony C]

My sentiments exactly...

 

[Keith N]

I hope you realize the care that is involved with this. It may not seem like much but it will take a considerable amount of time.

 

[T-ReXx]

Now see, this is exactly the kind of "breeder" who should not be breeding..

 

[Daylight_Thieves]

To those who love animals!

I hope you realize the care that is involved with this. It may not seem like much but it will take a considerable amount of time.

Yes, I do understand the amount of time and care needed for her. That's why I was looking for ADVICE on how to make things better for her. Any little thing helps.

I thought that giving her things that are more soft in the cage would be better than rocks. Even making hides out of cloth and styrofoam and having a water dish that has a ranp on all sides to keep her from smacking into it and making sure the water level is low enough that even if she stepped into it, she couldn't drown from it.


Any other suggestions as to what I could do to her cage?

 

[Daylight_Thieves]

My sentiments exactly...

For being such high members I would think that you MIGHT have some advice on how to make things better rather than mocking my love of life!

This baby gecko is no different than a child who is born with a physical defect! We don't kill those children, we help them... That's exactly what I'm doing!

If you can't be helpful, SAY AND POST NOTHING!!!!!!

 

[Keith N]

I wouldn't change it from any other tank. It will learn over time where the water dish and other items are the same way humans do. Just make sure to leave them in the same place and not mix it around too much

 

[Daylight_Thieves]

I wouldn't change it from any other tank. It will learn over time where the water dish and other items are the same way humans do. Just make sure to leave them in the same place and not mix it around too much

The only reason I have to change the tank is because she is being shipped to me. Otherwise, as soon as she gets here, her tank will remain the same.

 

[Tony C]

For being such high members I would think that you MIGHT have some advice on how to make things better rather than mocking my love of life!

Nobody is mocking you, we are both frustrated because an unethical breeder has taken advantage of your kind intentions. The only advice I can give in this situation is to find a better breeder and get a healthy gecko, this one needs to be culled.

 

[StatikStepz]

Someone that you may want to consider speaking to on this very subject of how to care for a blind/special needs gecko would be Kathy from Adirondack Gecko. She too has a blind little one that she hatched and is caring for and letting live. It is now surviving and thrivin quite well and apparently living a happy life. it now apparently knows where its hides are, where the food is, where the water is, etc by its sense of touch and smell. Yes, it is possible for a deformed gecko to still live a happy life, HOWEVER, there is ALOT of care and devotion that is needed in going into it. As admirable as your intentions are, just make sure you are fully aware of the responsibilty that you are taking on before you divulge into this new endeavor. And yes, as Keith said, it would also be very important to make sure that everything is always in exactly the same spot. And you do not need to worry about havin everything made out of cloth or cotton or things like that, because it will not "slam" its head into things like that, because they do walk pretty cautiously since they cannot see where they are going. Just as in humans, how when one sense is taken away, it is said that the others become stronger and more refined, i do not see why it would be any different for an animal. Hope this helps, but as most have said, if you do decide to take this gecko on, but be sure that you are going to be able to put into it what it will need and are very well versed on the subject, because if you are not, you may very well make it worse for it and end up hurting it more than helping it.

 

[Daylight_Thieves]

Nobody is mocking you, we are both frustrated because an unethical breeder has taken advantage of your kind intentions. The only advice I can give in this situation is to find a better breeder and get a healthy gecko, this one needs to be culled.

He was going to cull it, but I said that I wanted it! She is perfectly fine otherwise and the breeder and I are talking about how to overcome her sight disability.

We're going to have easy-access water and food dishes, with shallow water so she can't drown herself... All the hides and things are going to be made of softer materials like cloth and foam, so she can't hurt her nose.

If you take precautions to keep her safe and teach her either how to be hand-fed, or find the food dish and get things that way, I see no reason to kill her. Besides, it's not like I'm getting ripped off as far as money goes... All I do is pay for her shipping and that's it!

 

[Tony C]

There are plenty of good reasons why that gecko should be culled and an ethical breeder would not release it. Whether it is free or not is irrelevant, that gecko should have been taken care of as soon as it hatched.

 

[goReptiles]

Letting the animal suffer is not worth it to the animal, when the pain and suffering could be prevented.

 

[BrilliantEraser]

For being such high members I would think that you MIGHT have some advice on how to make things better rather than mocking my love of life!

This baby gecko is no different than a child who is born with a physical defect! We don't kill those children, we help them... That's exactly what I'm doing!

If you can't be helpful, SAY AND POST NOTHING!!!!!!

I don't care if this gecko is the "love of your life," you are doing WRONG by this gecko by keeping her alive. A gecko born without eyes is not a "SLIGHT" birth defect, it is an unfixable, untreatable, unchangeable condition. This gecko is never going to have a normal life. NEVER.

Whoever bred her and sold her to you is irresponsible and unethical. Period.

And besides, a gecko is NOT a child.

Sorry, let me say that again.

A GECKO IS NOT A CHILD.

There are specialized doctors, therapists, teachers and programs to assist with disabled children. Children, as well, can communicate (to some extent) what they are feeling. Can you talk to your gecko and ask how her day was? Can you ask her if she is in pain? Can you ask her if she is eating and drinking enough to keep herself in good condition?

People gave you their opinion when you asked for it. The fact that you are too thick to take their seasoned advice to heart is why I am now doing my best to rip your arguments to shreds. Hope it helps!

 

[acpart]

We have about 4 threads going about the topic of culling and if possible it would be nice to keep the "what should have been done with this gecko" opinions on the other threads and the "what advice to give someone who wants to take this on" opinions here.

Depending on how this gecko develops, caring for it could take a bunch of time and energy (coaxing it to eat, dealing with infections or other health problems) or it could take very little extra time (handing it the feeders). I have several geckos without defect who, for some reason or another, are not good independent feeders and need some hand feeding. They actually take more time than the one gecko I have that has eyelid issues and needs to be hand fed, since this one grabs the feeder as soon as she feels it near her face.

In response to your original question: set up the cage the way you want it. Try to keep things in the same place (but if you don't the gecko will adjust). Try to assist in the feeding as little as possible --if the gecko can be handed a feeder rather than having to pick it up and push the feeder into its mouth, that's more independence.

One thing to find out about (and this gets close to the other topic) is how this gecko develops as it grows. I can't know for sure what kind of "quality of life" a gecko is having, but I can guess that if it maintains the same posture as my objectively healthy geckos (as opposed to the curled belly "in pain" posture) and is active similarly to my other geckos, that it is not far off. If this gecko continues to grow and thrive, and you want to care for it, it makes more sense than if the gecko is marginally active, eating and growing, in which case the breeder should seriously think about putting it down.

Aliza

 

[ForTozs]

I admire your devotion to geckos and wish you the best of luck. I believe anything is possible if you put your mind to it. However, don't be afraid to throw up the white flag and be prepared for disappointment, i.e. if the gecko is not thriving...cull. I do agree with others that the breeder is irresponsible in respect to the fact that he has no way of knowing your devotion, and he/she should not trust consumers will go through such a huge undertaking. I do believe you have good intentions, however. I disagree with the argument that it is unethical since the gecko can't communicate. Geckos can never communicate to us their happiness. If you really think about it, the inbreeding, enigma morphs, and putting animals in a cage all their lives isn't very ethical either. And I'm sure there are some unhappy geckos out there that have eyes. I'm not disrespecting herp and exotic owners, I have geckos myself, and have had many other herps in my life. But I'm not going to try and rationalize to myself that it's what the gecko wants. Its selfish, curious, hoarding human nature at its best. I just think that you made the choice to try and help the gecko, and I wish you and your new baby the best of luck. But...don't be too proud to cull. Its the worst thing you could do for that gecko.

 

[aburningflame]

sorry can you guys fill me in?
why is the breeder unethical?

could the blindness not be genetic?


..i understand the frustration but was it hte breeders fault? e.g can you blame parents for a child with a disease?

you cant say "the child is bad cuz the parents were unethical breeders"

am i missing something here? :s

 

[Alex G]

I'm not sure if it's different for lizards, but plenty of snakes have been hatched out missing one or both eyes and lived perfectly fine lives. Reptiles have pretty crappy senses of sight anyways, from what I understand, and rely mostly on their senses of smell and touch (and for lizards, hearing). This animal will definitely be special-needs and take a HUGE amount of care, but I think if this person is will to do that and never breed the animal, that's their prerogative.

 

[Tony C]

sorry can you guys fill me in?
why is the breeder unethical?

could the blindness not be genetic?


..i understand the frustration but was it hte breeders fault? e.g can you blame parents for a child with a disease?

you cant say "the child is bad cuz the parents were unethical breeders"

am i missing something here? :s

The deformity isn't the breeder's fault of course, failing to cull it is what makes him unethical.