AMAZING results

[got spots?]

I accidentally confused wheat bran and wheat flour. So long story short I have housed my mealworms on wheat flour for about a month or two. The results are amazing! only about 3 or so died out of a 1000. Also the puapae ARE HUGE!! maybe 2-3x the size of my other ones. I admit not all of them were huge but geeze.. I don't know if the wheat flour affected this or not. But i'd recommend trying it at least once. What is the worst that can happen? You use $3 to house 7ish cages of mealworms that all grow normally? :main_thumbsup:

 

[T-ReXx]

I've been using wheat flour with my mealies for about 6 months now and I agree, the change has been quite noticeable. It's easier to sift, much easier for small larva to eat, and cheap and easy to find. The only issue I have with it is the mess it can make. It's basically the same thing as wheat bran, anyways, just in powdered form. I totally recommend it as well.

 

[RampantReptiles]

Is it very dusty? I have problems with the dust of the substrate. I almost always have an allergic reaction after sifting. Mostly just runny nose but sometimes asthmatic/slight trouble breathing and it really sucks. My reaction is no where near what it used to be but that could be because I was working at a place that was SUPER dusty and so my defenses were low.

I also thought that mixing different types of flour other than wheat might make it more nutritious. My mom is allergic to wheat so has all kinds of different flours like potato flour, rice flour, etc. Yay gluten free! This would make it more expensive but might be nice to try.

 

[roger]

what exactly is it.Is is called just wheat flour? how is that different to regular flour.what would it say on the package?

 

[RampantReptiles]

Im not sure what he got but "regular flour" is bleached. It is a white color and as far as Im concerned unhealthy. I assume he has unbleached wheat flour which is a brownish color if im not mistaken. Its like the difference between white and wheat bread.

 

[got spots?]

Yea wheat flour is like a brownish color. I got a brown bad called king Arthur. Idk what you mean by dusty. I would think any powder is. But it doesn't seem too bad for me to recognize though it does stick to your hands.

 

[Shera]

I have enriched all purpose flour that says "unbleached" on it. I used whole wheat flour for my supers though, but that was before reading about the oxalate thing. According to this site, whole wheat flour is high in oxalates, and regular wheat flour is moderate in oxalates, so it might be better to use white unbleached flour. For those who didn't read the other thread, oxalates bind metal ions (such as calcium), so that they can't be used by the body, which would decrease the Ca ratio in the feeders.

Whole wheat flour might be better in other ways though, I'm more thinking out loud than trying to advise anyone.

 

[musick]

...I'm more thinking out loud than trying to advise anyone.

Along those lines, mealworms reared in bran will be deficient in calcium due to the phytic acid. Phytic acid handicaps the absorption of Ca, which mealworms already lack.

Chicken feed is a better choice, and I routinely add other items I already have on hand, such as whey protein/powdered milk, green barley grass, ground flax seed and spirulina, along w/ a variety of veggies which are on a constant rotation.

Not advice, just food for thought.

Any larger grains can be put into a blender to powder it - just do small amounts at a time. I would store this mix in the freezer and microwave before introduction to the colony to kill/reduce any pathogens as well.

 

[got spots?]

but even if they are defficent in calcium wouldn't dusting them give them more calcium? Also keeping a dish will have another source of calcium.

 

[Shera]

but even if they are defficent in calcium wouldn't dusting them give them more calcium? Also keeping a dish will have another source of calcium.

Sure, but ideally the feeders themselves should be well rounded too. It's kinda like vitamins for humans, just because you take a vitamin doesn't mean you can avoid fruits and vegetables.

 

[mindgamer8907]

I just read the rest of the list of high and medium oxalate foods, and a majority of the things that one would gut-load mealies with (wheat bran/germ/flour, potatoes, celery, carrots, etc.) are on the high or medium oxalate list. To follow that train of thought, mealies wouldn't be very good feeders in general for these animals. The mealworm by nature, (if I'm not mistaken) is, well... meal. They're a grain (wheat, etc.) and flour pest, their diet is very high oxylate by nature... that's an interesting notion I think. Thank you Shera. For the time being though, I'd say stick with the wheat flour (not the bleached, and I'm pretty sure the king arthur's is fine but your wallet would be happier with the generic, I know the name brands tend to enrich theirs with all sorts of stuff too). In addition, it seems a simple task that if it's a high oxylate food that will keep calcium from reaching your gecko it helps to dust, keep calcium in the enclosure at all times, and add a high calcium substance (powdered milk for example) to the flour mix.

I wouldn't particularly suggest potato or other flours for mealies. Meal means grain and would include grain products. What may work though is rice flour, it is a grain and would seem healthy enough. I did read somewhere that rice is higher in phosphorus, than it is calcium... So perhaps mixing wheat and rice flours wouldn't be such a bad idea considering the benefits of the two (wheat tends to be higher in other vitamins that rice is not) If we're gutloading anyway, it seems smart to combine these two, with our powdered milk.. The fresh vegies and or fruit we use would seem to either help or hinder this process.

Also, I've been housing my colony on wheat flour and and such and my mealies were quite nice, few died until after they were removed from food (and put in a food dish) and the beetles are scrappy and healthy.

 

[RoninSTi]

I used to keep my mealies on blended oats. Now I have them on Pro Gecko gutload and the LOVE it. They seem to be fatter and I have far less deaths.

Now my dubias on the other hand, I toss some Progecko gutload in there and it's a feeding FRENZY. I might video tape it and throw it up on youtube , it's that wild.

 

[RampantReptiles]

I agree I love the progecko gutload but it is expensive and would be beneficial to make my own bedding.
These are the ingredients for the progecko gutload which you can also see on their website http://www.progeckos.com/gutload.htm
Ingredients:
Sun-grown grains, ground corn, wheat middlings, dehulled soybean meal, safflower, dehydrated alfalfa meal, ground wheat, ground rice hulls, molasses, canola meal, rice bran, marigold extract, various seeds and greens, calcium supplement, vitamin/mineral supplement and more.

As you can see there is a variety of ingredients in this and yes grain is the first ingredient but many of them are not grains. This is one reason I dont agree with the logic that meal worms should eat grains, this is a tried and true tested product.

I wouldn't particularly suggest potato or other flours for mealies. Meal means grain and would include grain products. What may work though is rice flour, it is a grain and would seem healthy enough. I did read somewhere that rice is higher in phosphorus, than it is calcium... So perhaps mixing wheat and rice flours wouldn't be such a bad idea considering the benefits of the two (wheat tends to be higher in other vitamins that rice is not) If we're gutloading anyway, it seems smart to combine these two, with our powdered milk.. The fresh vegies and or fruit we use would seem to either help or hinder this process.

(I dont mean this to sound like an attack just trying to prove a point and Im sorry if it comes off the wrong way.)

Also nomenclature does not define what a mealworm eats. Yes they are known for infesting grain products but that probably has something to do with the fact that our society bases a very large portion of their diet on grains(or at least used to, look at the food pyramid) and so that is where the mealworms were prevalent. Maybe if we had a more rice based culture like the Asian cultures then mealworms would infest rice and might be called riceworms... IDK.
Mealworms obviously also eat fruits and veggies which are not grains(yes I understand this is for moisture purposes but they still consume them)...
I guess my point is you dont know if they will thrive on other foods unless you try/conduct scientific studies.

There are tons of different types of flours and Im not saying you shouldnt use wheat flour but maybe a mix of other flours might be beneficial to your bugs. There is a list of some flours on the wikipedia page here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour

Also your mix does not have to be flour, you can use small sized dry foods as well like seeds(might have to grind them up because of hard shell), ummm idk possibilities are out there.

I cant guarantee that everything you try will work, Im saying that people should have an open mind. Does anyone know of anything that mealworms should not eat that would kill them or keep them from thriving?

 

[Shera]

In the wild they actually eat decaying plant matter, which would probably be a superior food source for them, but it would be a lot harder to sift out, lol. I am now keeping cabbage leaves (high in calcium, low in oxalates), as well as grain for burrowing, in with my supers and they love the leaves.

 

[thegeckoguy23]

i think i might try it it sounds like it well work wonders