Calcium sand

[rmb0123]

Didnt want to...but here yah go... Still wanna use sand?

 

[ReptileMan27]

I apologize for not sounding very supportive... I guess I'm a little 'jaded' after so many years of getting literally hundreds of calls, emails, photos, and PM's over geckos sick, dying, and dead from impaction.

With all the great information we have nowdays, why even risk it... even if the chances are remote that it could happen? There are so many safer options to choose from. For me, it's just not worth the gambling of our gecko's lives.

Could not agree more:main_thumbsup:

 

[bcreptiles]

yippeeeeeeeeeee another sand discussion, always the same

 

[TokayKeeper]

Didnt want to...but here yah go... Still wanna use sand?

Well, let's see.....

2nd pic is of "digestible sand" and 1st pic is "fine grade bark".

Either way I still stand by my "ranted" post here.

And not to argue with Marcia, but we have TONS of limestone outcroppings here (eastern NM is predominantly limestone mountains - think Carlsbad Caverns in Carlsbad, NM or the Sacremento and Guadalupe Mountains of Otero and Eddy Counties). I'd be willing to gamble leopard geckos fill a similar niche to that of TX banded geckos located here in southeastern NM, or in limestone-based ground with mixtures of sandy-based (degradation of limestone, gypsum, etc.), alkaline soils.

I only argue this given my track record of keeping my ADULT geckos on sand (since 97) with no ill effects, and then coupled with work (Naturalist at the Las Cruces Museum of Natural History). I personally prefer naturalist tanks, and given my field of work I must also provide a naturalistic-like habitat for the animals we have on display. We have quite a few lizard species on display that are significantly smaller than an adult leopard gecko that have had no issues with sand, or the various mixtures I mentioned in my previous post, with no ill effects.

And for the sake of argument....how old/large do the leos pictured above look? Those are young animals.

Paper towels are convenient, meal worms are (high in fat) convenient...I prefer the more natural approach of the europeans.

Something also to consider. Many animals that go hungry/starving or lacking forms of nutrition will attempt to eat substrates as a last ditch effort for those missing elements. Shoot, macaws eat clay. The assumption is the clay helps neutralize chemicals found in the unripe fruits they eat.

Parents are kept on sand....

Babies above are currently on sand and doing fine. They are also about as uncoordinated, if not worse than, a baby leopard gecko.

 

[ReptileMan27]

Is this crap ever going to end?. It all comes down to the person, to me its not worth the risk because leos have been killed by impaction from sand(not just calci sand). It may not be all that common BUT does happen. I personally do not see a reason to risks somethings life over something as dumb as substrate but thats me..

 

[TokayKeeper]

one last thing for the newbies (beginners) out there reading this thread....

I DO NOT advocate using sand on hatchling leopard geckos. The rearing habitats I use consist of sterilite shoe boxes (next size down from the 6 quart tub, aka "sweater" box) with a rubbermaid ood storage box (takes up 1/3 of the sterilite and fits perfectly in it) as a moist hide and paper towel substrate.

 

[BettaDragon]

I use paper towels and a heating pad and it doesn't get too hot. I layer it about three times and it's the right temperature. I suppose it all depends on the type of heating pad though.

 

[MSMD]

I have used both paper towels and reptile carpet with UTHs. I have had no problems with either. I moniter all of my surface temps closely, though. In some cases, a rheostat may be necessary regardless of substrate.

 

[toothfairy]

Sand is not always bad. When you mix sand with clay powder, and put it wet into the tank, it get hart. No gecko in the world can eat it! And its easy to clean.

The formula is: 5 kg sand on 1 kg clay powder. In germany we use nearly only this substrate. And ist like in the natural habitat, theay have in pakistan sandy clay ground and stones etc.

Regards, toothfairy

(As always, sorry for my english!)

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

When you mix sand with clay powder, and put it wet into the tank, it get hart. No gecko in the world can eat it! And its easy to clean.

Sounds good! How does is work with a UTH... does it conduct heat?

 

[ReptileMan27]

The hard packed sand/clay is a good natural option. From everything I have read/heard that is probly the most natural substrate for leos,not just plan loose sand. I personally dont use it but dont see any probs with it because the leos cant ingest it.

 

[GeckoJunkie]

You know THIS thread is just what this forum is about. I want to know what everyone else thinks....its how we learn. This forum is a great resource and is full of opinions which is great. Tokay...my hats off to you brother for standing behind what you believe. Its this that I come here for. We can not tell no one what to do, we make suggestions and then they have to make their minds up for themselves. Thats why this forum is so great, lots of opinions. A lot of people here have my respect even though I have never met them, but for them not being afraid and telling how they feel and what their opinions are even if its NOT the most popular!!! How boring and how long would this forum last if everyone one of us had the same thoughts and opinions?? Let everyone voice their opinion.'
I myself use paper but because I have all my adult geckos in display cages I have considered going to play sand. Besides Im not sure how many of you feed your geckos on the sand to begin with. All mine get their food put into a dish. Granted they are a few and I mean a few mealies that get out of the dish and get eaten on the paper. Does this mean it is 100% safe? Nope and Im not sure anything is.

 

[TokayKeeper]

no substrate is 100% fool proof....look at people that kept small rugs or blankets, even towels, with large snakes. Every once in a while you'll hear about a burm, boa, or retic trying to eat the thing.

I have a male hypo CT from Kelli that shreds paper towel because he loves to dig, or if kept solid it winds up balled up on his hide box. Do I want him missing a cricket and eating paper towel? How many of you have ever made spit balls from napkins, paper, etc. A few grains of sand versus a wadded up, slobber soaked piece of super absorbant paper. Hmmm.

These animals that ingest enough sand to fill a small table top salt shaker have something going wrong with them if they insist on ingesting that much!

Sad thing is (and I guess it isn't necessarily sad) is that these debates are like Nikon Vs Canon, Ford vs Chevy, Billy Mays Vs PineSol Woman and Mr. Clean. They are never ending, each offers pros and cons, some better and some worse than others.

I tell ya what though, it sure as h**l is fun harassing and annoying people that use canon, chevy, etc products. I'll own a chevy (obviously I drive a ford) before I own a toyota (too often yanks over-price this automobile) though, and I'll own a canon before I own a sony camera.

 

[rhino43grr]

how's a leo going to ball up, shred or ingest a piece of tile?

 

[eric]

Until Animal Planet comes out with Eublepharis macularius manor we really don't know the long term effect of leo's and sand.there has been no long term, updated study on leopard geckos..try googling it..but as humans we take in animals and hopefully give them a better home thus prolonging there lives.if reputable breeders say no sand (very bad) thats good enough for me and why would you take a risk on your little friends life?

 

[blizzard]

i use calcium sand and have had zero problems. i hear good and bad. but my leo is pretty accurate on catching crickets if she wasn't i would definitely do something different. when she was a baby i hand fed her mostly so impaction was never an issue. plus if they're eating mouthfuls that bad news bears, but a couple grains here and there probably won't cause harm (at least that's my logic)

 

[ReptileMan27]

i use calcium sand and have had zero problems. i hear good and bad. but my leo is pretty accurate on catching crickets if she wasn't i would definitely do something different. when she was a baby i hand fed her mostly so impaction was never an issue. plus if they're eating mouthfuls that bad news bears, but a couple grains here and there probably won't cause harm (at least that's my logic)

A little here and a little there builds up,leos have a short digestive track and its just a matter of time before it gets backed up. I think its safe to say even people that still use playsand for leos and people who wont risk using sand can all agree calci sand is :main_thumbsdown:

 

[Scott&Nikki]

The last thing I want to do is tell people what to do, but have you guys ever felt calci cand when it gets wet? It clumps like cement. When I mistakenly used it the first day I got my leo, I spilled the smallest amount of water on an area. I thought nothing of it, and later was cleaning and felt this large clump I could barely break apart. I can't see how anyone would NOT have a problem with it, personally...

 

[Brhaco]

left out of this debate is the partcular calcareous material that the sanfd is made from. MOST commercial calcium sands are made from CALCITE, which is a crystaline form of calcium mde up of herd, sharp, resistant grains. These can be quite harmful if ingested in any quantity, and resist dissolution in digestive systems.

ARAGONITE (coral sand) is a far better material, typically composed of small, rounded grains which dissolve quite readily, even in plain water. If you wet your fingers and pick up a pinch, you can actually feel it dissolve as you roll it back and forth! I've used it quite successfully for several years with various desert lizards in naturalistic vivaria.

The only manufacturer i know that uses aragonite is Carib-Sea, with their "Reptilite" product.

 

[Tommy13b]

I use paper towls and im thinking about slate. i used calc sand for about 2 days then i swiched to paper towls, they are pretty good, easy to clean.

one werid thing about my leo, it will only poo in the empty dish i bought for melies, lol