Eclipse and the Patternless Stripe

[Neon Aurora]

So I've been reading some random pages lately and despite that, I'm still really unclear on the patternless stripe stuff. Supposedly Ron Tremper discovered eclipse by breeding a reverse stripe and stripe together, which also came with patternless stripe. So how linked are eclipse and patternless stripe? I can't help but notice that tons and tons of RAPTORs are patternless stripe, but I rarely see typhoons or RADARs that are. I'm assuming that breeding two patternless stripe animals will give you a higher chance of patternless stripe offspring, but what are the chances of getting patternless stripe (or any other pattern) from two banded eclipses? Are patternless stripe and eclipse linked at all, or did they just happen to get discovered together?

 

[acpart]

I'm not completely sure of the answer, but my experience with breeding suggests the following:
--eclipse seems to be simple recessive
--patternless stripe seems to be the extreme of a continuum that goes: aberrant, jungle, stripe, reverse stripe, patternless stripe. I have no idea if it's dominant or line bred, but I've gotten geckos on the stripe continuum from breeding stripe to stripe, stripe to banded, and (I think) even a case of breeding banded to banded when one of the breeders' parents was a stripe.
--I think they were brought to light together in the Raptor morph, but that doesn't mean they were discovered together. I have a male Tremper albino hatched in 2004 before anyone knew about eclipse. He appears to be het for eclipse since he produces eclipse offspring when paired with an eclipse or het eclipse (he's been my breeder for 11 consecutive seasons and he's ready to go again this season!)

I honestly don't really know if a patternless stripe is truly the product of a stripe/reverse stripe cross. I don't think anyone really knows and there has not been enough rigor in the breeding records to ever really know, I think, at least until someone figures out the genetics of striping. If it turns out to be truly polygenetic, we may never know.

Aliza

 

[Alceste]

Read Sasobeck's explanation on his facebook page. Basically there is no probability associated with stripe, reverse stripe, and pattern-less stripe. Only that by line breeding you can start with jungles, work your way to stripes, then to reverse stripes, and eventually to patternless stripes. And, somewhere along the way you will produce eye pigment that will act as a simple recessive. This is why you see a lot of patternless stripe and reverse stripe animals that are also Eclipse. Some mack snows also have the eye pigment without being super snows.

Now the RAPTOR thing has sort of a weird evolution. Tremper created the RAPTOR and the "P" in the name is for "Patternless Stripe". But as the morph got distributed and bred by other breeders the requirements have been reduced down to Tremper and Eclipse. Like how RADAR is Bell Eclipse. Strictly speaking a RAPTOR has to come from Trempers line of Tangerine, and Patternless Stripe while also being eclipse and tremper albino with red eyes. But the difficulty associated with understanding and tracking Tangerine and Patternless stripe lines, is the reason it is now commonly termed a combo of only those 2 recessive traits. You have to understand the RAPTOR morph is now 12 years old, so it's everywhere. When it was new, breeders cared about the line and the purity and it keeps the value of the animals high. 12 years later though it becomes less important as the animals are far less pricey.

 

[indyana]

Here's a link to the Sasobek article mentioned above:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/saso...anted-to-read-itpattern-and-i/472504296118178

The basic gist is that crossing patternless stripes originally birthed the Eclipse eye pigment. Although it acts recessive, no one is really certain if it's a single gene allele or a complex of alleles that tend to be inherited together once they form. Some go so far as to say that all Eclipse animals will have the possibility of creating stripes, but there is definitely not some concrete probability number there.

 

[Kristi23]

I thought Alberto created patternless stripe by breeding stripe x reverse stripe, but I could be wrong on the person. Eclipse popped out of two patternless stripe animals. It's not really known if it was created that way or if those animals were just carrying the recessive genes for it.

Patternless stripe is a line bred trait like the other stripes. However, because it was created by stripe x reverse stripe, I often times will get reverse stripe babies from two patternless striped animals. I've even hatched a couple banded animals that way. Usually, they are from snow crosses, so I think that the banded snow that was brought it carries some of that with it.

Eclipse is a recessive gene (mostly eye) and it was crossed into each albino strain. When raptors were created, patternless stripe was involved (the P). It was not used when creating radars and typhoons (from what I know).

So basically, if you continue breeding patternless stripe eclipse animals together, you're passing on and sometimes improving the patternless stripe. But if you cross it into something else, you're going to see more of a mixture of patterns depending on which seems to be more dominant.

Patternless stripe animals hatch with no pattern, but they gain pattern as they get older. It's usually two stripes, but can also be spotting. I have found that adding hypo will keep most pattern from showing up later on.