Giants

[eyelids]

As for weights... it's not hard to tell who the power/overfeeders are. These guys are getting 60 grams at 4 months, which is ridiculous and VERY bad for the geckos.

If you're referring to my post, well you are totally assuming things. Those two geckos just grew really fast, what else can I say? It's not like they were only 4 inches long... :main_rolleyes: I have never 'power fed' my geckos and I'm one of the people that sees the obesity problem as well. It is a huge problem! To be honest, I only feed my adults once a week and they only get 4 supers at that time! Most people feed babies daily, but I prefer to let them grow slowly and only feed 2-3 times per week.

Most of the so called giants and super giants I see are obese. Probably the result of people trying to get them up to giant/super giant size asap so they can sell them as 'giants/super giants'.

What likely happened is RT had some large subspecies blood floating around in his collection. He just happened to catch the right one before it went to market. Ah this is a big gecko! Lets breed it to other large geckos! Now we'll breed those into our projects... Hmmm the babies aren't as big as the original ones, but they're still big... Let's see what happens when I breed a big project cross back to the original bigs... Wow! Some are big yet some are bigger like the og bigs... Ponder ponder ponder... Alas it must mean the bigger bigs are a super form of the bigs... These should do well if I call them co-dom cause Macks are just coming out... :main_thumbsup:

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

:main_thumbsup: Agree

 

[kkigs]

Michael, my post had nothing to do with yours...

I'm pretty disappointed that my previous posts seem to have accomplished little to nothing.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

LOL don't worry Keith, I read them and appreciate it...I just have to let others chime in and speak

 

[forgivenick]

How'd I miss this thread? I am intrigued by the discussion. All I really know about giants so far is what Ron Tremper has written/posted on his site (as far as co-dom). Thanks to all who have contributed. I have considered adding a giant or two into my projects, but haven't yet.

 

[KevinS]

I don't have time to read it all again, but as I recall, the giants don't stand up to a scientific analysis-see the following link.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/lizards/852611-giant-leopard-geckos-genetics-vs.html

 

[Champleo]

I feel another thing not being considered is that people who basically know the morphs are going to generally feed a "Giant" more because they expect it to need more. It's like a legit Jedi mind trick. But as far as genetics: I think we sometimes forget the Mendelian approach is not a Universal law; it's a statistical theory that was published in 1865. I've seen evidence of significant difference between giant and non-giant clutchmates just as much as i've seen gradual to no difference at all. I suggest that a well recognized member of the breeding community should raise money for some DNA profiling between giant and non-giant clutchmates. It would at least give us better insight into the discussion if not wrap it up. I feel that there are enough people in the community that we could raise $300 easy between all the breeders and enthusiasts. Even if a report from some company is too much I'm sure we have connections to people with the resources or education, anyone who's taken college level biology can do it.

 

[im faster]

Well here is my opinion..
As of now i wont sell any gecko as a giant unless i know its from the giant line..
HOWEVER, IMO big gecko+big gecko = big gecko. I dont feel it is a codom trait.

i just dont get how its proper to say a gecko is a giant if it hits 80 grams in a year. some geckos grow slower. I also dont think its just a weight thing. you can look at the structure of a giant and tell it from non giant. but then again is there really a firm answer as to what a giant truly is?
EX. if breed giant to giant. and i get a stubby little small head small frame gecko that makes it to 100 grams in a year. is it still a giant just because its fat? i dont think so.

also i thought i read somewhere that someone had a 2 month gecko that was up to 70 grams.. i just can not fathom that. all my my giants eat no more than any of my others. i dont know if people are stretching the truth or what.. but 10 grams a week i just cant imagine that.

great thread btw.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Thanks for the link Kevin.

Would it be farfetched to say Giants are similar to toy breed dogs (reversed obviously). They are not a co-dom mutation but rather selective breeding of a certain size animal. They have different structural and growth patterns, but not through the means of co-dom inheritance but rather line bred/polygenetic means. A toy breed bred to a normal would in essence make a mini. So a standard size dog would be "normal", mini would be single gene, and toy would be the super form. Sounds like a co-dom morph...except it isn't. Giants will influence size like a Tangerine will influence color.

 

[KevinS]

That's how I look at it (polygenetic) and I personally don't think it's very realistic to use weight within one year as the only criterion and/or believe the mode of inheritance to be incomplete dominant.

 

[KevinS]

Giants will influence size like a Tangerine will influence color.

I like that, but I think "hypo" makes for a good comparison as well. You could breed SHTCT to a normal and get some hypos with orange and you could breed 2 SHTCTs and get more SHTCTs...but that doesn't mean they're the super form of hypos (which is ironic considering what the acronym stands for).

 

[im faster]

I cant get my log into work can someone repost the pictures/graphs

 

[CNest]

Thanks for the link Kevin.

Would it be farfetched to say Giants are similar to toy breed dogs (reversed obviously). They are not a co-dom mutation but rather selective breeding of a certain size animal. They have different structural and growth patterns, but not through the means of co-dom inheritance but rather line bred/polygenetic means. A toy breed bred to a normal would in essence make a mini. So a standard size dog would be "normal", mini would be single gene, and toy would be the super form. Sounds like a co-dom morph...except it isn't. Giants will influence size like a Tangerine will influence color.

Ok, now this analogy I can understand and makes some sense to me. Such as the Giant, standard, and miniature Schnauzer? Three different sizes of the same breed.