Super Stinger White Out

[OhioGecko]

Ohio Gecko is proud to announce the hatching of the worlds first Super Stinger White Out! I will post progression pics as this gecko ages.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Congrats Thad…It's great to see new morphs hatching out. The AFT market is about to explode and I'm glad to be a part of it.

 

[Azazel]

Grats Thad! That's awesome!

 

[Jmac4119]

Very nice Thad!

 

[Carinata]

You beat me to it! Any Stinger Whiteouts you'd be willing to show off?

 

[Imperial Geckos]

Congrats! I can't wait to see this one develop.

 

[EverEvolvingExotics]

Huge congrats, I'd love to see progression pics as it ages.

Congrats Thad…It's great to see new morphs hatching out. The AFT market is about to explode and I'm glad to be a part of it.

I'm right there with you, Chris!

 

[Lecko my Gecko]

awesome! congrats. what does the whitout stinger look like?

 

[OhioGecko]

You beat me to it! Any Stinger Whiteouts you'd be willing to show off?

awesome! congrats. what does the whitout stinger look like?

We have not hatched any White Out Stingers yet. Soon as we hatch one I will post it
This is only our second clutch hatching from our white out het stinger girl. She is still laying and we have another clutch in the incubator.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Very nice hatch. Looking forward to seeing progression on it

 

[justindh1]

Though I have never breed let alone owned a fatty, this one looks pretty cool. Congrats on the big accomplishment. Now lets see some of your leopard geckos. :banana:

 

[OhioGecko]

Though I have never breed let alone owned a fatty, this one looks pretty cool. Congrats on the big accomplishment. Now lets see some of your leopard geckos. :banana:

LOL, I will see what I can get up tonight.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

So what was the pairing and how do you know it's a Super? Any idea what it will turn out looking like? I'm not very familiar with the Stingers, especially Super Stingers.

 

[OhioGecko]

So what was the pairing and how do you know it's a Super? Any idea what it will turn out looking like? I'm not very familiar with the Stingers, especially Super Stingers.

The Stinger and Zero morph is not completely understood yet. At first it seemed to be a co-dominant trait but after personally breeding them for two seasons the trait is acting like a recessive trait. But then there is a super form which doesn't go along with the recessive trait. And now JMG has been producing hidden gene stingers http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=86418. This is an exciting morph to working with, and who knows what else will come from it

Here is a pic of a zero and a super stinger. Oddly we have not produce any stingers.
View attachment 45979

The picture of the Super Stinger White Out in this thread is from our super zero male x white out het stinger female. The hatchling is much lighter in color and some of the back coloring is washed out, which is typical of white outs. The base of the tail and legs are really white compared to the other super stinger hatchlings.

 

[Imperial Geckos]

The Stinger and Zero morph is not completely understood yet. At first it seemed to be a co-dominant trait but after personally breeding them for two seasons the trait is acting like a recessive trait. But then there is a super form which doesn't go along with the recessive trait. And now JMG has been producing hidden gene stingers http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=86418. This is an exciting morph to working with, and who knows what else will come from it

Here is a pic of a zero and a super stinger. Oddly we have not produce any stingers.
View attachment 45979

The picture of the Super Stinger White Out in this thread is from our super zero male x white out het stinger female. The hatchling is much lighter in color and some of the back coloring is washed out, which is typical of white outs. The base of the tail and legs are really white compared to the other super stinger hatchlings.

Thad, to my understanding and experience Zeros (het. Super Zero) and Zero Sibs (het. Super Zero) have all been striped and have all produced Striped offspring.

Was the Whiteout (Stinger sibling/het. Super Stinger) you crossed to your Super Zero striped or banded?

Is there any chance that the "Super Stinger" and "Super Stinger Whiteout" actually be Patternless and Patternless whiteouts? Any chance of any Patternless blood in that Super Zero and Whiteout?

 

[Carinata]

Here’s how I think Zeros/Stingers work. Zeros and Stingers are essentially the same morph with Zeros having the added Stripe. Of course there is a Patternless Super Forms, with both the animals. I believe there are 2 lines of Zero and Stinger, I’ve talked to Urban and they’re line has never been bred with JMGs line. Urban Stingers are much different looking than JMG Stingers. I believe those 2 lines are different mutations, but closely resemble each other (like a Lesser and Mojave Ball Python).
Now as far as the Zero/Stinger complex acting as a recessive, I doubt that’s what’s going on. What I think is going on is, the Zero and Stinger siblings that are exceptionally dark, but have a normal pattern, are in fact Zeros or Stingers, but they look normal so one would think it was acting as a recessive mutation, but in reality it’s acting as an extremely variably co-dominant mutation.
As far as Patternless go, I’ve seen a lot of Zeros het Patternless (in fact I had one at one point), and as I learned more and more about that particular pairing I found that Zeros het Patternless are a lot more common than once thought, and some of the Zeros/Stingers het Patternless that were being hatched were not Zeros/Stingers, but were in fact non-genetic Aberrants het Patternless (they got the funky Aberrant trait from the Het. Patternless). I’ve been told that Zero/Stinger and Patternless are compatible, but I’ve seen Zeros het Patternless which would be like making a Butter Lesser Ball Python, you wouldn’t make Lesser Butters, you would make a BEL. So somewhere there’s a disconnect, as to whether or not Zeros/Stingers and Patternless are compatible. One theory I’ve sort of thought up was, when Patternless first were imported, maybe some weren’t Patternless? Maybe some were Super Stingers and Super Zeros? Then those Patternless and those Super Zeros/Stingers, were bred together and the genes piggy backed, sort of like the Granite in the Hidden Gene Woma Ball Python. Now it’s hard to separate the two and even harder to figure out what are Zeros/Stingers.
As far as Zeros go in Whiteouts, it’s very subtle. Whiteout Zeros are often very muddy and browned out. So your Whiteout “het” Stinger may be an actual Whiteout Stinger. This gene is over all very difficult to read and figure out, but hopefully with some time and trial breedings, we’ll have it figured out!

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Yeah, these two genes are whacked! It's way too hard to tell exactly what you've got!

 

[Carinata]

Not if you get them direct from Africa

 

[OhioGecko]

Thad, to my understanding and experience Zeros (het. Super Zero) and Zero Sibs (het. Super Zero) have all been striped and have all produced Striped offspring.

Was the Whiteout (Stinger sibling/het. Super Stinger) you crossed to your Super Zero striped or banded?

Is there any chance that the "Super Stinger" and "Super Stinger Whiteout" actually be Patternless and Patternless whiteouts? Any chance of any Patternless blood in that Super Zero and Whiteout?

My original Super Zero produced a lot of banded babies, including the het zero white out female. It was very close to 50% when breed to a non-striped AFT.
Below is a picture of the white out het stinger and her clutch mate white out het zero.
View attachment 45986

I have never owned a patternless AFT. I have never seen a patternless gecko make a zero or stinger either. So, far this year we have hatched out 5 super stinger and 5 zeros from crossing our hets from last year back to the super zero father this year.

 

[Carinata]

The one on top looks very Stinger-ish. I would say the bottom one is a poor example of a Whiteout Zero, but one none the less.