supersnow

[yats08]

i know some basic genetics and morph combos., but i want to be more sure about this.,

supersnow x supersnow

will i get

100% super snow

or

50% supersnow
50% snow

or

50% supersnow
25% snow
25% wild type

and yes i have tried it in gecko calculator

TIA

 

[Treefolk]

SS x SS = SS
MS x SS = 50% MS 50% SS
MSx MS = 50% MS 25% SS 25% Normal

SS x normal = MS
MS x normal = 50% MS 50% normal

These percentages apply to any codominant genetics.

 

[acpart]

i know some basic genetics and morph combos., but i want to be more sure about this.,

supersnow x supersnow

will i get

100% super snow

or

50% supersnow
50% snow

or

50% supersnow
25% snow
25% wild type

and yes i have tried it in gecko calculator

TIA

Just out of curiousity, when you tried it in the calculator, didn't you get 100% super snow? That's what I got.

Aliza

 

[EasiGregory]

What if its a SS with unknown hets? How would one go about proving out the hets in the SS in the most efficient way possible? SS x Normal? Also when I say efficient I don't only mean time but also what is the best pairings over a season or two to establish a better knowledge of possible hets.

I would want the best information regarding my animals as possible with no hidden secrets.

Also is it normal or more of a common thing to have hets? In my head having a SS or MS with no hets is viewed as "pure". But I don't know what the best practices are along with what is viewed to be normal and abnormal. Seems like some people like to throw stuff together and don't care what they are mixing. I would want to keep lines as pure as possible.

Thanks

 

[VampyreByte]

When proving out hets, breeding to a normal will prove nothing.

And if you want to keep things "as pure as possible", then you need to buy pure. From breeders that know what they are doing and can basically guarantee to a certain extent that their animals have no hidden hets.

If you want to prove out hets your best option is to breed to a Raptor to prove tremper albino and Eclipse, breed to a bell to prove that and breed to a rainwater to prove that. But in doing this you are doing what you think other people are doing and throwing stuff together. In all those breedings though, since its a Super Snow, you will get all Mack Snows with all those mysterious hets of whatever you breed to.

Your best bet is to not breed unknown hets to make sure your not adding to the problem of dirty unknown geckos.

And yes it is very normal to have geckos with hets. And it is normal to have geckos without hets also.

 

[EasiGregory]

So then in my opinion I have no business breeding any of my animals. Unless of course I dedicate time to prove out every type of possible hets. All three of mine are unknown

Another question though...If I get a "pure" SS and breed it to my male SS unknown hets will I not have SS's? But they will still posses unknown genes through the male correct? Which in my opinion isn't the right thing to do. I'm only interested in snows, but I want to do it right. I think I ultimately have three animals they I shouldn't breed.

I'm still confused on how to get rid of hets and get to a "pure" state. I've read a lot of articles about breeding and genes but still don't know enough to fully understand the entire picture. Anything you guys can point me too reading wise? Or should I just keep asking questions :smart:

Thank you VampyreByte for the response. Very helpful! I need to get on of you guys/gals that are knowledgeable in a room alone to just ask questions.

 

[Treefolk]

If your SS is het albino and you have another SS that is het free, your offspring will be all SS but 50% will be het for albino.

Can you ask the breeder you originally got it from?

 

[EasiGregory]

I don't have a clue what my male SS is het for. I've tried getting a hold of the breeder who sold it but have gotten no response. As much as I love these little guy I have I wish I would have spent the money on a het free SS.

 

[VampyreByte]

SS breed to a SS will only give SS.

In order to create a pure SS from an un pure would be to breed it to every possible recessive trait out there, Which would be all 3 albino strains (rainwater, bell, and tremper), eclipse, blizzard and murphies patternless. You'd end up getting a Mack snow that would be 100% het for each of those once your done finally testing, or if your SS had a het for one of those you would have a 50% chance of getting which ever one it was het for.

Then you could breed the pures together after you proved them to get more pures.

It would literally take hundreds of dollars and a couple of years at least just to find out what your SS "might" have for hets.

So itd be best just to not breed them and find a pair that have known genetics to breed.

Its hard to deal with some of this stuff when there are breeders out there that don't bother to trace the genetics of the geckos they breed and then sell them to people that are only just starting to learn and want to breed their geckos. But by not breeding your geckos that you have unknowns about you are being a more responsible person than who you bought from by not wanting to add more unknowns to the community.

If you ever have any questions feel free to post on here or you can private message me also. I've done alot of my research on leopardgeckowiki.com and asking questions and reading on these forums. And by poking around with the reptilecalulator.com just to see what would happen when you put different traits together. The calculator doesn't help with morphs like tangerines, bolds, bandits, stripes and traits like those that are line bred.

 

[EasiGregory]

Yeah its sad because I wanted to get into breeding. Looks like I wasted my money. Maybe I'll find a snow on here I can invest in.

 

[acpart]

Here's a reasonable compromise in my opinion:
Check the breeder's website if s/he has one to see what morphs s/he works with. That should give you some idea of the possible hets (e.g. if they only work with Tremper albino then it's unlikely your gecko is het for Bell albino).

Choose your nicest "unknown" snow for breeding. Invest in 1-2 other geckos of known genetics. If your single unknown genetic gecko is het for something, the offspring have a 50% chance of being het. Sell the offspring as snows which are possibly 50% unknown het. As long as you make full disclosure it's not unethical in my opinion.

ALiza

 

[Treefolk]

You can also just breed your SS to a known het free SS and breed their children to each other. Hets to hets should produce a visual eventually. Incubate 2 male and 6 female and breed each male to 3 females.

 

[EasiGregory]

Well I heard back from the breeder today. He said my SS was an offspring of a Mack Snow x Super Snow. He didn't know the hets of the parents. Does that make a difference for my baby super snow? Or does this change things at all in regards to proving out or whether or not I should breed him or not?

Thanks for the response Aliza and Tree. You guys have both been helpful in the past months of reading and doing research..and of course now :wink2: Now mind you guys that I have never bred geckos before and this is for a future small time learning/hobby adventure. I'm just planning now so that in a year or so I'm better prepared. And starting with solid animals with a well known background is a great square one imo.

 

[acpart]

Does the breeder have any information about where he got the parents from? That may yield more information.

Aliza

 

[EasiGregory]

Him and a buddy of his have been breeding for a long time and from what I know his buddy is doing most of the work behind the scenes while he focuses on selling things. All I could get out of him was that they were possible hets for other morphs. Ive since asked if he could at least give me an idea of which het/genes the parents could have had.

He had a few albino adults(2-3 years) and a few what looked to be blizzards. I'm not exactly sure of the other morphs but they were solid white and the albinos looked like bell/trempers. Along with those there were a bunch of normal looking young geckos around the same age as my super snow.