Urgent: One leo is getting extremely skinnny

[Kiara1125]

Hello all, I have 2 leos into a 20gL and they're just babies. Echo and Viper were both skinny whenever I got them. I'm feeding them just mealworms and although Viper has gotten fat - her tail has gotten huge! - Echo has only gotten skinnier. Echo's tail looks like a twig and, although you can't see his bones, his stomach is straight across rather than being plump - at least he's not concave.

I need advice on what to do now. I've tried to separate them for a bit and feed him, but he never eats. I refuses crickets and ate mealworms whenever I first got him. He might eat one or two every few days. I've tried spot feeding him into his hides - nothing. I don't know what to do anymore. If I can't do anything to help him improve, I'm going to see if a professional leo keeper or an experienced hobbyist can take him and fix him up. I would REALLY appreciate some help. Thanks in advance.

I'll post pictures of him soon.

 

[acpart]

There's a chance he has parasites or another illness. Separate them if you haven't done so already. Find a reptile vet and take him.

Aliza

 

[Kiara1125]

For one, there's no reptile vets where I live. Secondly, I don't have the money right now because I just got all of my cats updated on their shots and heartworm/flea/tick medication.

Also, should I fill out the info for my leo? I pretty much gave all the information already, but should I fill out the form to make it easier for everyone else?

 

[Kiara1125]

Here's a before shot when my fiancé and I first got them a month ago. You can see how fat Echo's tail was and how fat he was in general.

Here's two weeks ago.

Here's Viper now.

Here's Echo now. He was skinny earlier, but I guess he ate. Strange seeing as how only one mealworm is gone. There were 5 in the dish (I feed in segments throughout the day) and now there's 4. You can also see how skinny his tail is now.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Providing the following info would help people provide suggestions about your husbandry: http://geckoforums.net/f130-health-medications/70912.htm

A picture of your cage would also be a good thing to post. I would separate them and make sure he has no lights on the cage and dark places to hide where he can get 100% out of the light.

If it's not husbandry,like Aliza said a vet would be your best bet. No one is going to be able to diagnose illness or parasites over the internet. Someone with knowledge and experience would need to see and examine him in person. arav.org is a great site to find a qualified reptile vet. He looks to be pretty thin. If he's starting to eat, great! If not I would try to get him some help ASAP. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if he loses much more weight he may be past the point of help.

 

[Olympus]

Any vet should be able to run a fecal (about $18-22) and provide a dewormer for him at about $8. Possibly charge a visit fee but it shouldn't be too terrible.

 

[Kiara1125]

About your leo:
- Sex: Unknown - always called a male, though
- Age & Weight: Unknown and unknown- How long have you owned your leo: One month
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend): Pet store

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo: Almost every day for about 15 minutes at a time
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now.: Isn't acting differently - still running around and exploring with tons of energy.
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe.: None that I know of.
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal): Still looks the same. No parasites and no difference in color or texture.
- When was the last time he/she went: I don't know. It's hard to keep track whenever I don't see them do it.
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on: Echo eats, but not that much. He's slowly getting skinnier by the week.

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size: 20gL
- Type (ex. glass tank): Glass tank
- Type of substrate: Repti carpet
- Hides, how many, what kind: 3 - moist hide, a log, and a stump.
B) Heating
- Heat source: T8
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side): 92F:86F
- Method of regulating heat source: None
- What are you using to measure your temps: Digital probe thermometer
- Do you have any lights (describe): Just a T8 for the plant
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females): 2 in total, unknown genders
- Describe health, or previous problems: No previous problems and were bought healthy

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much): Mealworms, about 5 at a time and they get replaced every time I see the dish empty ... so that's usually several times a day
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect): Left in dish
B) Supplements (describe how often): Just the reptile Calcium with and without D3.
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands): Reptile Calcium with D3 - I use it rarely and I leave RC without D3 in the tank
- What are you gut loading food with: carrots, potatoes, and apples - I breed the mealworms myself.

Here is their enclosure. I don't currently have another tank to set up Echo in. I have a 2.5g, but that seems a little inhumane. I had a 10g when I bought them, but it ended up cracking a few weeks ago due to an accident.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

With proper temps and husbandry a baby gecko shouldn't lose weight if it's eating 5 mealworms a week. If your gecko is losing weight my guess would be it isn't eating at all. The only way to know for sure would be to separate it from its cage mate and watch for poop.

Handling every day for an extended period of time like you're describing is a TON for a nervous baby leopard gecko. I usually recommend folks handle at most 5 minutes 2-3 times a week after the gecko has a few weeks to settle into their new home.

Bright lights will cause stress. I would get rid of them. I would also get a good vitamin supplement. They need more than just calcium. Repashy Calcium Plus is a great all in one. I'd try to get the cool side of your tank a bit cooler. Babies tend to prefer temps 90-92 but they also need time to cool off to the mid-80s. I like my cool sides to be about room temperature - 70-75. If the baby is too hot that could be why it is losing weight rapidly even though it's eating. I don't know what a T8 is but leos need belly heat. If the T8 is a heat lamp I would suggest getting rid of it and getting an under tank heater. Lastly, your geckos need more places where they can get 100% hidden and out of all light. They prefer hides to be small and tight so they feel secure. The one log you have in the middle is not nearly enough with a super bright light over the tank. If you want to keep the plants you'll need to provide a lot more cover or the stress of being exposed and vulnerable may cause more problems.

 

[Kiara1125]

I can't get the cool side any cooler. The AC burnt up and my aquariums are at 88F right now. I'm surprised my reef fish aren't dead. I've mainly been handling Viper because she sits still more than Echo. I left them alone for the first two weeks and then started handling them about 3 days out of the week. They don't seem scared, seeing as how they walk onto my hand when I put it in the tank.

I've tried to get more hides, but I've been ordering them offline so they will be either too small or too big. I can't find a good medium. I'm trying to use paper towel rolls and tupperware containers right now. Also, a T8 is just a type of light that provides more light than heat. I feel like if I get an UTH then the geckos will be too uncomfortable seeing as how it would cause the temperatures to skyrocket. I will try to find one extremely tight hide where they can fit comfortably in it, yet have a little wiggle and grow room.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I use granola and spaghetti boxes in a fix. They need to be throw out and replaced every few weeks but they work great for temporary hides while they grow!

 

[Kiara1125]

Thanks! Will the soft, crinkly plastic on spaghetti boxes cause any harm to them?

Oh, I just thought about it. Could Echo get really fat after eating just one mealworm because I'm feeding them ones that are ready to pupate? All of my mealworms are big now and I can only find freshly molted largish ones or large ones that are ready to pupate. Should I give them smaller mealworms, or will the size not be a problem?

My crestie was smaller than the leos, yet he's fine with the large mealworms and he has grown to be larger than the leos.

 

[Kiara1125]

That's it. I saw an inspiring thread of a rescued leo that was skinny and had no toes. What is the minimum tank size I can keep Echo in? I have a 2.5g that I can use right now. I just felt like it was too small. I can't get an UTH, but I'll definitely see what I can do about him eating. Is there any good vitamins that places like Drs. Foster and Smith sell? I currently can't look because it's 5:30 am and I have to get some sleep. I would really appreciate it if I can be told what type of vitamins to get and what to do with them. Thanks in advance.

Would something like this work?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=6016+6057+19702&pcatid=19702

Or should I go with this?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=6016+6057+22846&pcatid=22846

 

[cornsnakegirl]

Not sure about the caloric supplement, but the multi vitamin is a staple in Leo dietary needs, so you need that anyway. You dust it on the feeders about once a week.

 

[Kiara1125]

I was wondering if the caloric supplement would work to help bring back Echo. I used Oxbow whenever my bearded dragon got MBD (I was young and my dad never bought a new UVB light after it went ou).t

 

[Kiara1125]

Ok, so I went ahead and added two more hides. A toilet paper roll and a Rubbermaid container that I cut a hole into. I also cut the butt off of a mealworm and had Echo eat the insides after I squeezed them out. He licked them up pretty quickly, but he just stopped at one. If I can do this every day, hopefully he'll get some weight soon.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Anything clear isn't a hide. They need to be in the dark to feel safe. Babies prefer smaller spaces. I keep mine in 6qt containers. I cut the spaghetti boxes so the plastic isn't on them and/or cup out the side the plastic is on and make that the bottom.

Size of the mealworms shouldn't matter but they may not eat ones that are about to pupate if they're not moving. They are visual predators and need movement to really see their prey. A caloric supplement might help if he's just hungry. I won't help if there's something else that needs fixing going on. I'd recommend getting some Repashy Calcium Plus. Pangeareptile.com or lllreptile.com are two good online stores where you can buy it. There are many more online places too - ebay for example probably has some listed.

 

[Kristi23]

It's very possible the gecko has parasites or even a bacterial infection. If that's the case, you will need to find a vet (any vet) and get him in. The plumper stomach with skinny tail makes me think parasites.

For the set up, keep them separate. Put the male in either a 10 gallon or 20L. Whichever you can get the most stable temps. Use paper towel on the bottom and change it every time he goes to the bathroom. I would keep the tank pretty bare with a moist hide (you can use Ziploc containers) and a warm hide. Anything you can use that's disposable would be great. Treat it like a quarantine tank. Gutload your mealworms and dust with vitamins/calcium. You can also try Golden Gate Geckos slurry recipe.

When he goes to the bathroom, what does it look like?

 

[Kiara1125]

I ordered a kit to collect fecal samples and send them in for testing. It's cheaper than going to a vet and the ONE vet that's around here is very vile and rude. Still an hour drive away though.

Echo and Viper both ate a lot of crickets yesterday! I got some while I was out and they ate a bunch. I can't keep them separate right now because I had a 10g but my BIL's GF wanted it back. Now I only have a 5.5g and I don't have a lid for it. Obviously crickets would be able to get out. My cats don't mess with the geckos.

Right now their designated bathroom spot is under the cool hide. Apparently that's the only thing it's good for. lol They've been paling out and staying in the moist hide, so I believe they will be shedding soon. Echo is looking very perky after eating the crickets. It was nice seeing him stalk them. I'm also getting in some phoenix worms tomorrow and hoping that, due to the lack of chitin, the leos will be able to eat them a lot easier. I can't make the slurry because the blender is now out of commission. Plus, I don't think anyone would appreciate me blending insects. There's not any period of time where no one is home so I can do it anyway.

This is what their poop looks like. It's all the same. Same consistency with white urates. In other pieces of poop, there looks to be mealworm chitin that wasn't fully digested. That's also my fault because I do not have an UTH. I will be receiving it on Monday, though. I am sorry, but there's no way I can separate these geckos simply because I cannot afford another UTH.

 

[ApolloFattiasMarshall]

You can put a separater in the middle of the tank and put the UTH in the middle em for a temporary thing until yoy can maybe get another tank. I'm not sure where you're located, but 10 gals are usually pretty cheap, and goodwill often has extremely cheap tanks.

 

[Kiara1125]

I know 10gls are easy to come by, but ugh. Also, how can I make the UTH temporary? I ordered a Zoo Med, so it says to stick it (adhesive) to the bottom of the tank. How can I get around that when I have to put the rubber feet onto the tank to lift it up?