WWYD? Abscess/tumour and surgery?

[libby]

Asking here because it's a "what would you do" kind of thing, based on your understanding of leopard geckos. My oldest boy is a rescue, and has a mass on his neck (looks like fat from the outside) which the vet says is either a tumour or abscess. They are able to perform surgery and have also offered euthanasia, but what I want to know is what others would do in this situation - particularly, what kind of pain you think they are able to feel, and whether you think surgery is ethical. I know they can hide illness well, and it's not clear how much they feel. He is able to eat but regurgitates anything large. If I had him put down, I would opt for autopsy anyway as I want closure on what it is and the vet would also be interested. Of course I'm attached to him, but I'm a realist, and I don't want my boy to be in pain.

WWYD?


a) Opt for surgery - he can be euthanised if it doesn't help
b) Opt for euthanasia - he is certainly in pain


a) Watch and wait - he's otherwise healthy and it took ages to notice something was wrong
b) Don't delay - this needs immediate attention whatever you do

 

[boa-constrictor]

I would say a) Opt for surgery. I've seen a leopard gecko surgery video on youtube that had a problem that sounds similar to your problem and it went very well. I dont think it would be fair to opt for euthanasia this quick, but if you are low on funds and cant afford any surgeries right now, I would just watch and wait. Good luck!

 

[Neon Aurora]

My decision would be based on the age of the gecko. If he's pretty old, I wouldn't put him through surgery. I would allow him to live for as long as he's comfortable (as long as he is eating and active) and euthanize when his quality of life decreases. It's the same way I make those decisions for any animal.

If he's young, surgery may be worth it.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

IMO Leaving an animal in pain is not an option but opting for surgery vs euthanasia for any medical issue for any pet is a personal decision. Of course your financial situation needs to be looked at and how hard it will be to come up with the funds plus the possibility of success for the procedure and the stress your pet will go through. Once that is as clear as one can hope for, the decision comes down to what you can live with. There is no right or wrong answer its all about what you can sleep with at night. I worked as a vet tech for several years and saw many people's approach to decisions like this. Some opted for $5000 surgeries on 16 year old dogs with little chance of success, some opted to put down young animals because they couldn't afford the care or the procedure would be risky and/or overly stressful for their pets. Best of luck finding a solution that works best for you and your gecko.

 

[libby]

Thanks, guys. I was told he is about 5 or 6, and otherwise he seems fit as a fiddle. As I said it took a while to notice there was any issue as he's 90+g with a huge tail and never seemed to be obviously suffering until I noticed him struggling with larger locusts. Not gonna lie, I do look at him and think putting him down would be unfair as long as he is still eating. He is one of eight leos I have currently and while surgery would be a huge expenditure, if it is not in itself likely to kill him I am leaning towards thinking it's worth it.

This is the first time I've had one that was sick but not immediately close to death, so for the first time wondering about the pain they experience. I guess we can't know. I have lost two females; the first came to me with stick tail and the other was her tank mate (before me) and died at a higher weight but not eating and seemed to have skin rot on her tail. I don't see the discomfort in my boy that was obvious in them, as if the entire stomach was hurting. They were tank mates of the lad in question (horrible husbandry, and the person was a breeder!) but it would be obvious by now if he had what they had and the vet thinks he's fine.

Really appreciate all of your take on this and even just for listening!

 

[indyana]

He's not that old, so if the surgery is successful, he could live for a long time. If you are able to afford it, seems like it would be a good option. As everyone else has said, it's a personal decision. The problem with waiting is that the issue could get worse and become harder to treat, so if you are considering having the surgery, keep that in mind.

 

[libby]

Update: surgery was performed to find out what the growth was. The vet and I both felt it would be of interest professionally and to the community. Boy pulled through fine from the anaesthetic and is back eating and wandering, if a little swollen.

Test results came back today: it is cancer of the respiratory tract.

Presented initially with a "fatty" looking neck, regurgitation of larger prey and little/no weight loss. Found during surgery to be a grainy, vascular mass. The actual surgery went without a hitch, so I can recommend the procedure itself and also the vets (Veterinary Hospital Group, UK). I am going to ask for the report to bring home at tomorrow's checkup if anyone is interested.

Prev. owner AFAIK kept this gecko in a shed for five years in a lidless RUB on a rack (as part of a breeding colony in which he was the oldest, the stud), so I do wonder about asbestos given how this form of cancer is usually caused. May be a thought for the community there, as obviously all of us differ slightly in our husbandry.

Not sure if I will opt for euthanasia tomorrow or give him a couple of weeks given that he seems fine. Vet says he would lose the ability to swallow long before losing the ability to breathe so is safe to hold off on.

Thanks for reading!

 

[TigressSnow]

If he was my boy is for sure let him live until he loses the ability to swallow. Lots of love while he is alive then when he loses that he would obviously be suffering, poor man I wish you all the best. He got lots of TLC and will pass happily without pain by the sounds of it

 

[indyana]

Aww, so sorry to hear that. Thanks for the surgery details though. It's always good to hear how things turn out to help build up the library of knowledge on gecko medical issues.

I agree, as long as he's doing all right and eating/moving well, you may be able to give him some time. Spoil that boy rotten! <3

 

[libby]

Thanks, I will! Everyone seems to agree that he's best allowed to live out his days. The lab are very interested in autopsying him should the time come, but I feel that they may be waiting a very long time. :main_evilgrin: Hopefully last vet visit for three months.

 

[libby]

<COPY OF REPORT>

Species: Gecko
Breed: Leopard
Age: 5 years

Clinical comments--

CYTOLOGY:
Two slides from a mass in the throat were examined.

DESCRIPTION:
Nucleated cellularity was moderate and morphologic preservation was good. Nucleated cells were accompained by moderate numbers of erythrocytes and low numbers of thrombocytes and were evident on an extensive finely granular pale amphopillic background. A pleomorphic population of atypical cells was predominant and was noted in irregularly shaped clumps of poorly organised cells. These were interspersed with mildly increased numbers of single heterophils and occasional basophilic noted in mildly increased numbers in relation to normal haemic proportions. Infectious agents were not detected. Atypical cells possessed round to oval nuclei which contained moderately granualar, open unevenly distributed chromatin. Moderate anisokaryosis was noted. Within the chromatin low numbers of variably distinct and variably mononuclear low numbers of binucleate cells of similar morphology were noted.
Cell outline was very variable and many cells were noted as nude nuclei within confluent finely granular pale basophilic cytoplasm. Intact cells not infrequently appeared columnar in outline with eccentrically placed nuclei. In low numbers of cells ciliary tufts were identified which clearly identified these cells as being of respiratory epithelial origin, and many other cells however cell outline was fusiform or indistinct. Cells not infrequently appeared to exhibit a degree of pallisading.

INTERPRETATION:
Neoplasia, epithelial - see comment
Heterophilic inflammation, mild

COMMENT:
The cytological appearance is very unusual and the atypical cells which appear at least in part to be of respiratory epithelial origin were pleomorphic. Typically the presence of increased numbers of ciliated columnar respiratory epithelial cells is associated with hyperplasia or possibly dysplasia associated with inflammation.
In this case, the cells appear to exhibit considerably more atypia and there is little evidence of accompanying inflammation and no evidence of infection.
In the context of the reported mass it would appear likely that these cells are associated with the presence of a neoplasm of respiratory epithelial origin (carcinoma).
However, given the highly unusual appearance of the cells histological confirmation would be indicated. I would be very interested in the clinical follow-up in this case given the unusual cytological findings.

<END>