4 mo. old female leo not eating or pooping

[hilltowner]

About your leo:
- Sex - female
- Age & Weight – 4 months old & weighs 5 g (3/8/12)
- How long have you owned your leo – 9 days
- Where was he/she obtained – Petsmart (I know, should've been breeder )

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo – daily at nighttime for about 5 minutes, my daughter puts her hand (sometimes with mealy worm on it, sometimes with nothing) on the bottom of the tank and leaves it there until leo climbs on. Leaves her hand down and in tank as we are still introducing ourselves to the leo. Don't want to move too fast.
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. Not really. She's very mellow. Spends most of her time in her moist hiding spot or out on her uth. Isn't too active. She seems to be behaving the same as since day one. If we put our hand in, then she moves around, but we leave our hand down until she climbs on or goes in a hiding place. She did shed a day or two after we had her (2/29/12 or 3/1/12), but didn't eat her shedding material. She looks fine.
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. We haven't had her long enough to know. We did purchase her from Petsmart, which I know is not the best choice.
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal) – sadly I haven't seen any, worries me
- When was the last time he/she went – not sure, hasn't had a fecal since she's been with us or maybe I missed it. She spends most of her time in the moist moss hideaway. I'll search it again.
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on – she ate a small mealyworm the first day we had her (2/28/12), but hasn't seemed to eat since. I keep track of the crickets and mealyworms I put in there and they don't seem to be changing in number. She also hasn't pooped. She did shed a day or so after we had her (2/29/12 or 3/1/12), but didn't eat her shedding material. Main concerns are lack of eating and pooping.

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size – 10 gallon tank with screened top
- Type (ex. glass tank) – glass tank
- Type of substrate – ZooMed Eco Reptile Terrarium carpet
Hides, how many, what kind – Two hides. One plastic house/stump and one intricate log with several levels and several holes to climb in and out of. The stump has moist moss in it. The log has one spot with dry moss.
Water source – small, shallow dish with water. Also, mist some of the moss and the leo once daily.

B) Heating
- Heat source – Zoomed ReptiTherm UTH for 10-20 gallon tank on one side
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) – still working on. The warm side is about 80, but the cool side is still 78, so working to figure out how to lower that. I also don't trust our thermometer, so I just ordered a new digital one that was recommended on the chameleon forum.
- Method of regulating heat source – Measure temps daily, still haven't figured out how to get the cooler side cool.
- What are you using to measure your temps – Currently a Zoomed analog thermometer, but just purchased a Chaney Instruments Acu-Rite 00891A1 Indoor and Outdoor Thermometer with Humidity which should arrive soon.
- Do you have any lights (describe) – I initially had an infrared light (as per Petsmart), then switched to a 60-watt bulb, then got rid of both when purchased the Uth.
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females) - none
- Describe health, or previous problems – none

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) – 2 small crickets and 3 small mealyworms per night
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) – left in a small, shallow dish along with calcium supplement
B) Supplements (describe how often)
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) – Have been using Rep Cal calcium without phosphorous or Vitamin D. Just received Rapashy Calcium Plus today, so planning to switch over to that tonight. We purchased it for our panther chameleon, but read that it is fine for geckos.
- What are you gut loading food with – banana skins, apples, carrots, broccoli, oranges,

Thanks!

Marla

 

[grboxa]

Personally I think its a heat issue. Your warm side is 80, that is very low, your leo cant digest properly at that temperature. I'm not surprised she has no appetite. Get the temp to 93-95, give her time so she can be exposed to the heat and I think you will see a big change.:main_thumbsup: And just to give another suggestion, you should add another hide for your moist hide. 1 warm(without any moss)/1moist/1cool, and would suggest to switch to paper towel in case they ingest some moss, just imo. Is your UTH being controlled by a thermostat(which is recommended)?, if not I find it weird how the warm side is only 80 plugged in and the cool is 78, which I'm assuming is why you don't trust your readings

 

[hilltowner]

Here are some pics. The first one is of how she looked a few days after we got her - taken 6 days ago (3/2/12). The second is our leo's setup. The third and fourth are pics of her taken today (3/8/12).

The UTH you see is actually a side UTH attached to our hermit crab tank. The leo's uth is located underneath her tank where you can't see it.

She looks so much skinnier. Is she going to make it? Should we take her to the local reptile vet tomorrow?

Thanks! Marla

 

[grboxa]

If you don't have a fecal sample, a vet cant determine if there are any parasites. Your UTH is on the side, UTH are meant to be under the tank so the surface area for your warm hide can be heated. Make sure there's available surface area in your warm hide with temperatures reaching around 93-95 so she can lay on and absorb the heat. Take out the moss in your warm hide, and add a cool hide. Like I said, give your leo time after making the heating adjustments, and in a couple days she should have an apetite, which will lead to a bowel movement, and then you can take the sample to a vet if you want it to be checked.

 

[hilltowner]

Thanks for the information. I'll make the changes that you mentioned.

Just to clarify, I know the photo is confusing, but the uth that you see is on our hermit crab tank. The uth on the geckos tank is underneath.

I also rechecked the temp and it varies depending where you are on the UTH. On the edges it is 80, but more in the center it's about 90-91. I'll check again once I have the new thermometer.

Thanks again!

Marla

 

[grboxa]

My mistake, are those readings you mentioned in the warm hide?. I'm assuming your UTH is positioned vertically along the right side correct?, your going to have to play around with the positioning of your hide on top of the UTH so you can get proper temperatures inside the hide for your leo.

 

[lclaypool20]

I had a similar issue in the beginning with my Gecko. The warm side was not warm enough. I made the mistake of measuring the temp below the carpet. Obviously I should have been measuring the point of contact as the carpet insulated the glass. Secondly, i had a hide with a plastic bottom that was again insulating. Finally, the spagnum moss insulated more because the gecko was not directly on the heat source. I took the plastic bottom and moss out. I currently use a water pillow for hermit crabs in the warm hide. I also use tiles and measure the temps with an infrared therm to make sure the spot that my gecko is touching is actually 90-95 degrees. Once I made all of these changes things got much better in about 2 days time. I spoke with a vet about this and he thought that my gecko was entering brumation. Once i got the temps right everything has been fine. I didn't think it was going to make it, but it really snapped out of it. Here is a chart with its weight. You can see the period of loss early on when I didn't have the temps right, you can also see what happened once it was taken care of.

Winston the Leopard Gecko
Date Weight (grams)
Hatchling ~3
1/7/2012 7.9
1/13/2012 6.5
1/21/2012 7
1/28/2012 11.7
2/11/2012 19.8
2/19/2012 27.7
2/25/2012 32.1
3/3/2012 39.2
3/10/2012 47.7

good luck,
Les

 

[hilltowner]

Thanks for the assurance, Iclaypool20. We might have found some feces and some of the small mealy worms seem to be missing since last night. She's had the uth for 4 days. Unfortunately, when we bought her, Petsmart told me we just needed an infrared light and that she didn't need an uth. Now we know better, hopefully it's not too late.

We weighed her today and she may have gained 2 g. We're hoping! I don't always trust the scale (though we weighed her 3 times).

Thanks again for your post!

Marla

 

[Rurso01]

It could be that your gecko just doesn't like eating out of a dish. Our gecko will not touch her dish of mealworms so we have since removed it. She much rather prefers to eat them when dropped infront of her so she can do more hunting.

Unlike most people, I do not use a thermostat but we check our temps religiously at LEAST 5 times a day. The way the weather has been, it is a little cooky.

+1 for paper towel substrate and removing the moss. We use warm damp paper towels on the warm side in an upside down Tupperware container with a hole cut out and smoothed the edges. The inside measures about 82 degrees because the lid does insulate the heat. She has never had a single issue shedding in 9 months so we are reluctant to change it.

While I do feel that it is a temperature issue like the previous posts have said, I would also advice you to get multiple food options. Crickets and phoenix worms worked very well for us when mealworms are not spiking interest. Our leo tends to fluctuate what she prefers to eat from meal to meal. Always best to keep things handy.

Our fridge/bug area contains: Dubia roaches, mealworms, crickets, superworms, and waxworms (as a treat) just to give you an idea lol.

 

[hilltowner]

Thanks, Rurso01. I do have a mix of food in dishes, on the carpet and some that I drop in front of her every night. Thanks to our chameleon, we have silkworms, waxworms, small mealyworms, crickets, and dubias (though the dubias are a little big for her) (and earthworms for our garter snake - LOL). I've tried to feed her silkworms, waxworms, small mealyworms, and crickets. I think she may have eaten some mealyworms, but I only saw her eat one the first night we had her.

I did remove all the moss and put in moist paper towels in her moist hide, which is in the cool area. Her warm hide and her cool, dry hide I didn't put anything.

The temperature of the floor of her tank seems to be good. It is about 90 in the warm area and 75 in the cool area.

I just wish I saw her eat. I would feel so much better.

Thanks again for your time!

Marla

 

[hilltowner]

Forgot to mention that we are taking her to a rep vet tomorrow. Hopefully, he can provide us with some ideas, too.

Marla