ABYSSINIAN QUESTIONS

[GreatGeckos]

Hello, I was wondering what people with experience thought about the abyssinians. Im looking for actual reports of people who have bred and produced offspring from an actually abyssinian from Ron Tremper or from a line that you know is 100% legit from his abs. Im not looking for opinions from people who think they're just eclipses.

Im trying to compile data about them with pictures from breeders who have bred them. Im doing this because I had some really amazing results from my abyssinian breeding project...somthing that blew me away and I will probably show soon but I want to hatch out some more of the offspring from this pair before I do.

Please comment about your finding with the abs and please include the pairings that you did, what crosses, lineage of the geckos if you can. Any pictures would be great too. Thanks

Also if you want to comment about what you think about abs thats fine, just please be mindful, I'm trying to compile accurate data. So please don't give an opinion of what you think it would make or what you think it is. However if you want to say its an eclipse that has brown markings not black markings feel free. However eclipses have black markings.

 

[Kristi23]

If you do a search here, you will find some old posts with info from someone who bought original ones from Ron and test bred them. He proved them out to be eclipse and nothing more. After that, I'm pretty sure Ron rarely did any more to test them out and prove what they were and he doesn't even use the definition that he originally had. It's to the point now where other breeders have pretty much changed the definition.

Originally, they were eclipse looking animals with red veins in the eyes (snake eyes with red veins) and no black on the body.

Now they are basically eclipse with no visual eclipse in the eyes but that are genetically eclipse.

There are quite a few posts here about it. There will be people who argue a lot. Many will go with Ron's original description, but if you look at the ones he has for sale, they do not fit that description.

They were test bred to visual eclipse the year after they were released and produced 100% eclipse.

 

[GreatGeckos]

Thanks kristi. Have you bred any abyssian?

Hmm I thought people would be posting pictures and results. I thought this would spark some convo and nice information with actual results and pictures..I think people got scared of spending the cash on an ab because it looks like an eclipse.

 

[Kristi23]

I honestly don't think that many people bought them. Very few people thought they were anything different. Especially when so many of us had eclipse that fit the exact description of abys.

I had a young female from another breeder that I bred once into my eclipse group. Just produced regular looking eclipse from the pairing. Nothing special.

This is one of the first eclipse I produced. If you look, there is no black on the body and he has the red eye veins. Not an aby. Just one of my eclipse.

 

[stager]

Thor gecko was doing some projects with them he hasn't been around though check his fb page

 

[Kristi23]

Thor gecko was doing some projects with them he hasn't been around though check his fb page

I do know Morgan works with them, but I'm not sure that they are the original ones. Hopefully he'll come on here. I thought he was one who called eclipse with no eye pigment abys, but I could be wrong.

 

[GreatGeckos]

Not just an eclipse! Shes beautiful .

Well I do work with the original line from tremper and I can tell you that breeding an AB X Eclipse Gives 100% normal eclipses.

However this is the special thing about them. I think abs have little hidden genetics with them. I believe they're like an eclipse homozgously resembles them. however I think when you have a 2 copy ab they have little hidden genetics.

I believe this because ab x eclipse offspring (eclipse looking 1 ab copy geckos) bred to SHTCTB het ab gave me 50 % het eclipses and 50% eclipse geckos, nothing special like you said , genetically.

However the same AB x a female AB offspring was bred to the SHTCTB het ab (sister from clutch) and it gave me all sorts of reverse stripes, stripes, hypo, greens, lavenders, snow looking geckos.

I have never seen a single pairing result in so many geckos who GENETICALLY appeared to be comepletely different geckos.

These results were amplified when I bred a Het ab to a Het ab or a AB to het AB of any sort without the Super hypo influence.

I think ab are eclipses with hidden genetics once you get a "pure" one with 2 copies. They're a mystery still for sure, but after seeing these results that there was obviously something different about them.
I have also bred eclipses to my lgm tangs het for eclipses. and the blue spot tang patternless eclipse from rons line into my SHTCTB Het abs, all of these gave similar results. Half het eclipses that were hypoish tangs, either with eye pigment or not. The ones with eye pigment were typically not as bright.

However a neat little thing I noticed about ab x eclipses offspring X shtctb het ab babies was : each gecko, every single one that was visually 1 copy ab or eclipse had white front socks, and circular pattern on the tail with little eclipse tail speckling in the cirlces.

Now this isn't enough to say theres all sorts of hidden things on the locus that come out homozygously when you have a 2 copy animal like I think what is going on with them, BUT it is a start and shows that there is definitely something different about a 2 copy ab wheather it resembles an eclipses or not.
And anyone who breeds enough leopard geckos knows what im talking about when I say you as the breeder can tell which animals will give what kind of baby when bred to a female. I can tell you before an egg hatches what will come out of a raptor X sunglow. Raptor X Raptor. Eclipse X Eclipse Het Raptor. SHTCTB X Eclipse. SHTCTB Het ECLIPSE X Eclipse.

I CANNOT tell you what will come out of AB X AB or any Het AB pairing....

Another thing is yes, your eclipse fits the description of an ab, but so does my blazing blizzard female fit the description of a diablo blanco, shes not genetically a DB though. I know that for a fact, I bred her is not possible.
My tangelo looks similar to a sunglow, and my SUPER Tangelo is identical to a sunglow. They're not sunglows though.

Again, eclipses may fit the description for an AB, but an AB a true 2 copy WILL NEVER display black on the body. It is possible for eclipse to show no black pigment, but it is also possible for an eclipse to show black pigment. It IS NOT POSSIBLE for a 2 copy ab to show black pigment. That is the major difference physically.

I am amassing data and pictures of the findings, I don't like to make assumptions without proper proof, especially on geckos that were not created by me. However I truly feel there is something mysterious and special about these geckos and I think im right about there hidden genes. Maybe im completely wrong and next season I will get results that completely shut this project down. For now Im going to run with it, because the results are nice.

 

[Kristi23]

It will be interesting to keep trying and seeing what happens.

I do know that when I breed two patternless stripe eclipse together, I can get a big variety in how the babies look. I've gotten reverse stripes, banded eclipse, and a variety of colors, too. Some are spotted and others have the two orange/red stripes. I always just assume that it's the patternless stripe gene that affects it. I know that it does a lot. So it will be interesting to find out more in the coming years. I don't have any aby stuff anymore and a lot of it being sold isn't from the original lines (or description). Good to know that you have ones directly from Tremper's lines. Good luck with your projects!

 

[stager]

I've herd some claims that they have only proved out to be eclipses, but I've have seen some that look really different then anything else of there especially when crossed with w&y. I personally think there maybe some subspecies in them because I've produced some very similar characteristics but that just my opinion. By similar I mean tails, speckling and similar colorating

 

[GreatGeckos]

I don't know whats in them, but its not just eclipse. I have personally bred the same ab and het ab, to the same clutchmates het for eclipse and ab. with extreme results that were so obvious that there was other genetics involved. but this is why im compiling photos and data. if it goes the way its been going in 2015 ill release the findings in 2016 sometime and people will understand. I do believe theyre compatible with eclipse. and I believe they are sorta like eclipse with hidden genetics in them....we will see time will tell, for now, theyre a fun mystery to me...maybe the project will take a turn for the worst and I will soon believe I have a ton of different eclipses. maybe not


Thanks for the input all.

Chris, thanks I agree..not sure if its subspecies but I think there is something else in them aswell.

 

[stager]

Yea I think tremper likes to keep somethings hidden

 

[Kristi23]

Yea I think tremper likes to keep somethings hidden

I don't think that's the case...