amel vs albino

[HepCatMoe]

is it the same thing? or are they diferant morphs?

 

[trizzypballr]

I believe an amel is a tangerine, but not totally sure, hopefully someone else replys to this also

 

[Stitch]

It is the same thing, Amel (amelanistic) means lacking melanin. The gecko will show no brown or black pigment.

 

[Stitch]

I believe an amel is a tangerine, but not totally sure, hopefully someone else replys to this also

Once you strip away the brown coloration it shows up like a tangerine color. You will see some list them as peach, tangerine or gold phase. There really hasn't been much success in defining these terms with AFT's.

 

[HepCatMoe]

well, the reason for me asking is im thinking of getting whats advertised as an amel het and breeding with whats advertised as an albino.

if they are diferant morphs then it would be pretty pointless to go that route. but from what i have heard, and accoding to stitch, it would be ok and i would end up with amel/albino babies.

 

[Stitch]

Technically you will end up with 50% being amel and the other 50% being normal het for amel. That is what I should get when I breed my two.

 

[trizzypballr]

so when people sell the 'tang' ATFs, they actully are albinos? so the terms amel and albino are interchangable?

 

[HepCatMoe]

gotcha, i just wanted to make sure it wasnt totally pointless to buy an "amel" and breed with an "albino".

thanks.

 

[Stitch]

so when people sell the 'tang' ATFs, they actully are albinos? so the terms amel and albino are interchangable?

Tang is just a "color phase", I'll use that term very losely with AFT's. You can take 10 different wild caught AFT's and they will all have different shades of brown in them. So if you were to strip them of their brown you wind up with the tangerine/gold/peach hues.

Take a look at some of these links and you can see a wide range of colors.
http://www.vmsherp.com/ViewFatties.htm

http://www.crestedgecko.com/Fat%20Tails.htm

http://www.a1reptiles.com/fat.html

Click on the fat tail page to view the differences in colors:
http://www.paulsagereptiles.com/

 

[Cory]

My understanding is different from what has been stated here.

Amelanistic Fat Tails are NOT albinos, albinos have a total absence of black or dark pigment, including the eyes. Albinos in all species are recognized by their light complexion, but more noticably by there pink or red eyes. Amel fat tails retains the very dark eyes of normal.

Melanin is any of a class of insoluble pigments, found in all forms of animal life, that account for the dark color of skin, hair, fur, scales, feathers, etc. Amelanistic ( a term you'll not find in the dictionary ) is an absence of this pigment in the skin, and in the skin only...

Albinoism is the absence of this pigment in the WHOLE body...

To my knowledge there has not been an albino fat tail, least not that I have seen.

I do stand to be corrected on all this though

 

[Stitch]

A lot of breeder still consider them albinos, check out the links.

The rainwater albino in leos has dark eyes so is that still considered an albino?
http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=2576&highlight=rainwater+eyes

From my understanding there are different levels of albinism. Maybe most of those levels aren't truely an albino?

Now I'm comparing apples to oranges, but what does an albino human look like.....most people think it's a very pale white person with blue eyes and blond/white hair. They are right but there are other types, such as people with red hair, fair/pale skin and commonly blue eyes.

I take it that most consider the amels as a level of albinism since it still lacks the melanin in the skin.

 

[Cory]

I just brought this discussion over to my site because I find it so interesting, and I would like it to continue here as well... here is a post I just made on my site in regards to this and would love any and all input over here as well!!

**********************

So I was on another board where the question arose " Are albino AFT's and Amel AFT's the same"

Here is the answer I posted...

"My understanding is different from what has been stated here.

Amelanistic Fat Tails are NOT albinos, albinos have a total absence of black or dark pigment, including the eyes. Albinos in all species are recognized by their light complexion, but more noticeably by there pink or red eyes. Amel fat tails retains the very dark eyes of normal.

Melanin is any of a class of insoluble pigments, found in all forms of animal life, that account for the dark color of skin, hair, fur, scales, feathers, etc. Amelanistic ( a term you'll not find in the dictionary ) is an absence of this pigment in the skin, and in the skin only...

Albinoism is the absence of this pigment in the WHOLE body...

To my knowledge there has not been an albino fat tail, least not that I have seen.

I do stand to be corrected on all this though"

Now after posting this I started to do a little digging, something I should have done prior to posting, lol, but I am a little confuddled by the amelanistic nature now, more so, what exactly it is. First, amelanistic is not a word, there is no definition for it to be found in any dictionary or scientific literature, at least, none that I could find. It does refer to a lake of melanin, as I indicated above, but generally in the terms of reptile breeding anyway, its a lack of pigment in the skin, but not the eyes. This is really evident in amel fat tails... as you can see in one of our future breeder Manuel...

In my mind, scary place that it is, this absolutely precludes these AFT's from albinism. Every single definition of albinism I can reference talks of a lack of pigment in the eyes, the darkest an albinos eyes can be is blue or even violet, but certainly not black as we see above.

The closest I could find to this by definition is Leucism..

"Leucism is a general term for the phenotype resulting from defects in pigment cell differentiation and/or migration from the neural crest to skin, hair or feathers during development. This results in either the entire surface (if all pigment cells fail to develop) or patches of body surface (if only a subset are defective) having a lack of cells capable of making pigment."

further ....

"A further difference between albinism and leucism is in eye colour. Due to the lack of melanin production in both the retinal pigmented epithelium (RPE) and iris, albinos typically have red eyes due to the underlying blood vessels showing through. In contrast, leucistic animals have normally coloured eyes. This is because the melanocytes of the RPE are not derived from the neural crest, instead an outpouching of the neural tube generates the optic cup which, in turn, forms the retina. As these cells are from an independent developmental origin, they are typically unaffected by the genetic cause of leucism."

"...albinism always affects the entire animal."

So, are these animals leucistic or albino or something completely different? I would love any input on this....

***************************

Thanks guys, interesting question, look forward to interesting answers!

 

[HepCatMoe]

just fyi ive been doing a lot of reading and i have come to the conclusion (when dealing with aft terminology) that amel and albino are the same thing.

 

[Stitch]

Like I have said before I have heard from numerous sources even my vet (who states himself that he is not a geneticist) that there are different types of albinism.

I do not truely know if the amels are a form of albinism or not but they do exhibit behaviors of albinos. If you take a normal leo and put him out in the sun he would keep his eyes open. Take an albino out in the sun and he will shut his eyes. The same occurs with amels, they will shut their eyes under bright light. Just take a look at the enigmas, I think it is, they are considered an "occular" albino. I don't know them well at all so some one please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[PaulSage]

just fyi ive been doing a lot of reading and i have come to the conclusion (when dealing with aft terminology) that amel and albino are the same thing.

Yes. From a marketing standpoint (as far as which terms breeders use to describe African Fat Tails) Amelanistic and Albino are one in the same.

 

[Cory]

Yes. From a marketing standpoint (as far as which terms breeders use to describe African Fat Tails) Amelanistic and Albino are one in the same.

From a marketing standpoint yes, but from a ACTUAL standpoint no. Amelanistic is a created word, you won't find it outside of the reptile hobby and birding. Albino does not fit the Amel fat tails, it can't the dark eyes, by dark I mean almost BLACK, not grey, blue, violet or any other variation of the lighter hues, preclude it from albinism.

However, as Paul said, when looking at morphs listed, if it says Albino Fat Tail, it is the same as Amel fat tail...

There are different types of albinism yes, and occular is one of them, but either occular or another variation the one constant is lack of pigment in the eyes.

I have never noticed a particualr sensitivity to light in my amels.

 

[PaulSage]

From a marketing standpoint yes, but from a ACTUAL standpoint no. Amelanistic is a created word, you won't find it outside of the reptile hobby and birding. Albino does not fit the Amel fat tails, it can't the dark eyes, by dark I mean almost BLACK, not grey, blue, violet or any other variation of the lighter hues, preclude it from albinism.

I agree :main_yes:

 

[okapi]

Albino is from the latin word for "white" which is how people described amelanistic mammals, because an amel mammal would not have many other pigments, so it would be white. But the term albino (when meaning white) doesnt quite fit animals which produce more than just brown/black pigments, because once they are expressing an amel gene, the other pigments shine through, instead of nothing which is how white is made. So any gene that stops a protein that is coded for making color is technically an "albino" gene. The word albino is so loosely used... But for afts and leos, amel = albino.

 

[HepCatMoe]

Albino is from the latin word for "white" which is how people described amelanistic mammals, because an amel mammal would not have many other pigments, so it would be white. But the term albino (when meaning white) doesnt quite fit animals which produce more than just brown/black pigments, because once they are expressing an amel gene, the other pigments shine through, instead of nothing which is how white is made. So any gene that stops a protein that is coded for making color is technically an "albino" gene. The word albino is so loosely used... But for afts and leos, amel = albino.

very cool and good to know.

do you know what pigments the leo's/fatty's are expresing besidse melanin?

 

[okapi]

Id have to check my biology books

Big long words that are harder to remember than melanin