Anyone heard of a super enigma?

[your gecko guy]

I went to a show last week in az and was told of this (new enigma morph) and that they are selling for 1,500 plus I guess it is a enigma that has been breed to a enigma so now it is called a super enigma .I was told that the (the new enigma) will lay 2 eggs that will both hatch enigma and that all offspring will hatch enigma .I am just looking for some help on this so If I am ask the question I can answer it so let me know thx agin

 

[Nigel4less]

No there is no Visual Super Form of the Enigma. It could be a Homozygous Enigma though. But without any proof of that then they honestly have no reason to sell it for $1500.

 

[Gazz]

I'd assume they are refering to (double factor)Enigma.But you can't tell these by vasually looking at them ?.As (single factor)Enigma and (double factor)Enigma look the same there just genetically differant.Nor do you JUST get (double factor)Enigma by breeding enigma to enigma as there are other possible results.So you have to prove them out to be (single factor) or (double factor).

Enigma-(single factor) X Enigma-(single factor) = 25% Normal, 50% Enigma-(single factor), 25% Enigma-(double factor) offspring.

Enigma-(single factor) X Enigma-(double factor) = 50% Enigma-(single factor), 50% Enigma-(double factor) offspring.

Enigma-(double factor) X Enigma-(double factor) = 100% Enigma-(double factor) offspring.

 

[Paco]

You wouldn't happen to remember the name of the Vendor selling the "Super" Enigma? I would be curious to see who is claiming they have one.:main_robin:

 

[Nigel4less]

You wouldn't happen to remember the name of the Vendor selling the "Super" Enigma? I would be curious to see who is claiming they have one.:main_robin:

I'd definitely love to find out who these vendors are selling these so called Super Enigmas.:main_robin:

 

[your gecko guy]

I dont want to point any fingers but the same vendor was asking 1,200 for a sunglow and 800 for a shtctb .He is a member of gecko forums he also told me that ron tremper him self p.m. him in want of his (super enigma) so I put this thread up to see if there was such thing as a super enigma? He had a (super enigma) there for 1,700 It looked like a tang enigma to me I asked why he was asking so much for the gecko then he told me his story but it might all be true (I tought that a dom. gene is a dom. gene) ? thx

 

[Nigel4less]

I dont want to point any fingers but the same vendor was asking 1,200 for a sunglow and 800 for a shtctb .He is a member of gecko forums he also told me that ron tremper him self p.m. him in want of his (super enigma) so I put this thread up to see if there was such thing as a super enigma? He had a (super enigma) there for 1,700 It looked like a tang enigma to me I asked why he was asking so much for the gecko then he told me his story but it might all be true (I tought that a dom. gene is a dom. gene) ? thx

Well maybe if he would come and post to verify some of this information... :main_laugh:

 

[nevinm]

if you breed an enigma to an enigma you get all enigmas, what the the double factor engimas?

and also maybe they were super snow enigmas.....

i just dont get why it would have been tangarine

 

[Halley]

if you breed an enigma to an enigma you get all enigmas, what the the double factor engimas?

Enigma x Enigma doesn’t equal 100%

Enigma x Enigma = 75% Enigma (1/3 of which are “Super Enigmas”) and 25% of the offspring would be normal. To prove an animal to be a “Super Enigma” you would have to test breed.

This seller cannot have claimed that he had “Super Enigmas” because he bred and enigma x enigma and got an enigma. If that’s what this specific seller said, he/she needs to review his/her genetics basics.

If however he tested out both parents (male and female) to be homozygous enigmas then he could factually state that he has “Super Enigmas”. But to me you would need at least 15 babies hatched from each animal and all to be enigmas, to prove an animal homozygous.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Someone saying "super" Enigma, means either, Super(Snow) Enigma, or a homozygous one. Sounds to me like they were trying to say the later. Since there is no visual difference between a homozygous, and a het, any "super" Enigma would need to be test bred and proven to produce only Enigmas, before labeling it as such. I don`t think there have been any homozygous Enigmas(yet proven) produced, at least not any that have been brought to the attention of the public.

Were they selling it as a proven breeder, or were these young animals? That info alone, would probably help you decide if they were legit. If it is not old/ large enough to breed, it surely has not been test bred/proven, to be homozygous. Something to keep in mind.

 

[paulnj]

Sorry, but this thread is way off track and obviously the vendor isn't replying

Where everyone is getting there data is a mystery to me, so until factual data can be supplied can we stop assuming that simple genetics applies to a gecko morph nobody can fully explain yet.... nothing simple about them huh

 

[RepGurl]

I read somewhere that there was suspicion that the enigma gene was fatal, meaning when the animal posses the dominate gene in both alleles it would not live to be born. If this was true having a "super" enigma would be imposable. Does anyone else know anything about that theory?

 

[Gazz]

if you breed an enigma to an enigma you get all enigmas, what the double factor engimas?

(Single factor)-aka-HET.
(Double factor)-aka-HOMO.

Engma(DF) X Enigma(DF) will result in all Enigma and this is the only breeding that will result in 100% enigma(DF) but you need to find them first not esay coz (double factor) and (single factor) enigmas look the same.And Enigma(DF) X Normal will result in 100% Enigma but they will be (single factor).

This is the way enigma being dominant is suspected of working.

Normal X Enigma-(single factor) = 50% Normal, 50% Enigma-(single factor) offspring.

Normal X Enigma-(double factor) = 100% Enigma-(single factor) offspring.

Enigma-(single factor) X Enigma-(single factor) = 25% Normal, 50% Enigma-(single factor), 25% Enigma-(double factor) offspring.

Enigma-(single factor) X Enigma-(double factor) = 50% Enigma-(single factor), 50% Enigma-(double factor) offspring.

Enigma-(double factor) X Enigma-(double factor) = 100% Enigma-(double factor) offspring.

AKA.

Normal X Enigma-(HET) = 50% Normal, 50% Enigma-(HET) offspring.

Normal X Enigma-(HOMO) = 100% Enigma-(HET) offspring.

Enigma-(HET) X Enigma-(HET) = 25% Normal, 50% Enigma-(HET), 25% Enigma-(HOMO) offspring.

Enigma-(HET) X Enigma-(HOMO) = 50% Enigma-(HET), 50% Enigma-(HOMO) offspring.

Enigma-(HOMO) X Enigma-(HOMO) = 100% Enigma-(double factor) offspring.


Why would Super snow enigma be in the frame ? this morph wouldn't necessarily result in 100%Enigma if bred to a normal only if the enigma was also (double factor) would it do so.He stated that all offspring will be enigma.Super snow enigma(SF) X Normal = 50%Mack snow,50%Mack snow enigma(SF).And super snow enigma(DF) X Normal = 100%Mack snow enigma(SF).

 

[LeapinLizards]

This thread is pointless without the input of the ACTUAL VENDOR. Assuming something only gets you so far, usually not in the right direction. Anyone can crunch the numbers, but without the breeder's clarification of WHAT was meant by Super Enigma, like I said, this thread is pointless.

I think it's terrible to speak about a vendor (when no one knows who it is), especially by posting information without clearing it with them first, and at least trying to figure it out. It should not be posted for people to guess what they meant, or assume they are charging 1000 times too much for something that isn't "real". It may turn out that way, but at least give the breeder a chance to explain without jumping to conclusions.

 

[paulnj]

EXACTLY.....

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

As long as we can have an educational and thought-provoking discussion about the possibility of "Super Enigmas", we can continue this discussion. Let's all try not to ASSume a particular breeder is scamming anyone. Also, we aren't going to name any breeders name here on the thread... right?

 

[RepGurl]

All I was asking was for some discussion on weather or not the enigma gene was fatal when expressed in both alleles. I dont care one way or the other about the vendor, just interested in the genetic aspects of this trait.

 

[Halley]

All I was asking was for some discussion on weather or not the enigma gene was fatal when expressed in both alleles. I dont care one way or the other about the vendor, just interested in the genetic aspects of this trait.

As far as I know, this has been suspected, but there hasn’t been a single test that has been documents and brought to the public’s attention.

 

[paulnj]

Only those who bred Enigma to Enigma can answer that and any other question asked in this thread.

 

[Paco]

All I asked was who the vendor was. So they could either Explain what they have or what they don't have. If they have what they say they do, or want to clear up what might have been misunderstood by the original poster. They should have no problem coming on the thread. That's all, I have not made any decisions other than that. Until I get the full story?