Bell Albino het Tremper, is it?!

[WoWo]

This is for now my only male, bought as a Bell but got Tremper babies from it, so asked on another local board people thoughts and they replied it's definitly not a Bell..!! I still can believe it. I'm thinking it's a Bell het Tremper.

Please, you long experienced people, tell me what you think. I think it's time to correct his name & all of the babies het..!! That will also greatly help me deciding which het the geckos i'm buying in few days should be..!

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Looks Tremper to me but I wouldn't rule out Bell. Did you breed him to a visual Tremper female? Were all the babies albino? How many? Have you bred him to a Bell? (Sorry lots of questions )

 

[WoWo]

I have 3 female and i didn't know if they were het something. It was a surprise! Two of them certainly carry an albinos gene : With my Wild Type, it was 1 out of 2 albino and for my SHT more or less the same (can't make sure that quick since only one egg per clutch was good, had still born & even conjoined siamese..!)

These albino babies are Tremper, that's why i'm guessing the male is a Bell het Tremper. No i don't have any (het) Bell female obviously or i would've got some albinos that didn't look like others... May i know what makes you think he's a Tremper rather then a Bell? Just thought i should've made a poll..! Can you add it to my 1st post please? I can't.

 

[Poppy243]

That'd be bad if he was Bell het Tremper, from my understanding. The albino strains don't mix, and if you got that guy from a breeder, I feel like that would be in bad form to mix the albinos and then sell the animal with that as a possibility, without at least notifying the buyer. Also, just from my understanding of genetics, I don't feel like you'd get such a high percentage of Tremper albinos if both parents were het. That means they only carry one copy of the gene required to show the Albino. Obviously, it's not a perfect estimate, but it should be like 25% if both are het, if you go by the Punnett square predicted results. I'm thinking he's a Tremper since you had such high percentage of tremper albinos. Any pics of the babies?

 

[DrCarrotTail]

How do you know the babies are Trempers? It's really difficult to tell the type of albino if you don't know 100% the type the parents are. If your females had hidden hets why can't they be Bell?

I really have no idea what albino your male is. Tremper was only a guess as he reminds me of lots of pictures I've seen of Trempers with that banded look. However, the banded look he has is pretty common among all three strains as it's the "normal pattern" The only other thing I thought was that his eyes have red veins like a bell but a silver background like a Trempe, but I really think the eyes are no longer a good indicator of abino strain because of these overlaps. He even could be Tremper and Bell at the same time which would complicate things even more.

 

[Moon Light]

I seriously am not much experienced, but I would say tremper, no clues, sorry I can't help.

 

[WoWo]

He even could be Tremper and Bell at the same time which would complicate things even more.

Uh?! Tremper her bell or bell get tremper but not both..! How do I know babies are Tremper? Well, they look like typical tremper (pica on the blog), unlike the adult male.. Ahhh that's annoying! I have a giant bell avalaible around but don't wanna buy it before I'm sure!

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Bottom line is you cannot be sure about the babies or the adult by visual cues. You need to test breed that male for a few more seasons to be sure if you're worried. I would recommend not breeding that male again if you have evidence that he has genes for more than one albino strain and getting one from a reliable breeder that you are sure of.

 

[WoWo]

What people replied to this is that "even Ron Tremper still make mistakes like that" (confusing baby albinos when selling them..)!

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Even if Ron Tremper makes mistakes (and I'm not saying he does!) it doesn't make it okay for everyone to just not care. Personally I ask breeders that I don't know well for evidence that their geckos carry genes for only one strain of albino and if they cannot provide information to my satisfaction then I would look elsewhere for a gecko. Of course, if you're just looking for a pet then hets don't matter a bit!

 

[WoWo]

When I bought it, I didn't care which albino it was, I knew nothing..

 

[Poppy243]

I've been careful to make sure any albino strains I look at are Tremper, as I have two that have tremper genes. I didn't care when I was buying my first, as I didn't know it was bad, or that there really were different ones. But when I bought one that was het Tremper, and I found out that the strains were incompatible, I made sure to watch for that and only looked at het Tremper or tremper-based morphs. I didn't check on my sunglow, as I figured they were all Tremper, so I got a smidge lucky that she was a Tremper sunglow, but as they are the most common sunglow and the other albino sunglow types have different names, I guess it wasn't really all that lucky hahaha. But I agree, if you thought he was bell and it's looking like you have Tremper, you shouldn't breed him again... Also, you should probably test breed the females who laid albinos with a Tremper and see if you get any Albinos. If you don't, that means the females probably het Bell, and you should sell those babies as pets only...

 

[WoWo]

I've updated post #1 with pics of the (supposed?) Tremper babies i've got at different ages (all from my Wild Type female), last ones being 4 month old female and 5 month old male (which look quite orange.. wouldn't it be "more" than a Tremper?) :main_thumbsup:

EDIT: In the mean time, i've asked Ron Tremper himself and he replied to me "that gecko's a tremper, babies as well, 100% sure. an albino can't be het for another albino line, so bell het tremper can't exist" > Surprised that nobody here mentionned (knows? agree?) this...

 

[WoWo]

Ok i got a surprise tonight. My first 2014 albino hatched and this time its eyes are VERY redish.. Egg from a new Tangerine female i got this year, not knowing her genes. So it appears she carry some albino gene, but which?

And then my Male in the end is a Tremper het Bell or a Bell het Tremper? Or maybe it's something more than a simple Albino? Please look at its eyes and tell me! PS: IRL, it looked MUCH MORE redish/pinkish.

Add: If this Male's a Tremper het Bell, then it means that ALL the babies i got from him are het Bell? And it'd be 33% (unless with last het Bell female, 66%), right? Hope you can confirm/correct , i should let know people who bought some..!

 

[Kristi23]

First off, a bell could be het for tremper. Not sure why he told you that it couldn't be. What he should have said is that it SHOULDN'T be. Albino strains do not mix and it can be very difficult to tell what strain it is visually at times. That is why breeders do not breed albino strains together. Ever. It is very much looked down upon and no one with good breeding ethics will do it.

I agree with everything Lisa said above. If you don't know, don't breed him again. You can read the "muddy waters" thread for more info on this.

 

[WoWo]

Well everyone including Ron Tremper said it was a Tremper 100% sure so i thought WE KNEW then.. May've been wrong. I understand why mixing Albino's not good and i wouldn't do it on purpose. I'm not going to kill them now though..!

I'll just mention to people they are either Bell het Tremper, either Tremper het Bell, can't be sure and shouldn't bread them..! What about the non Albino born from that couple though? An albino can carry another Albino gene, but can a wild type carry TWO different Albino gene..?

 

[Kristi23]

Well everyone including Ron Tremper said it was a Tremper 100% sure so i thought WE KNEW then.. May've been wrong. I understand why mixing Albino's not good and i wouldn't do it on purpose. I'm not going to kill them now though..!

I'll just mention to people they are either Bell het Tremper, either Tremper het Bell, can't be sure and shouldn't bread them..! What about the non Albino born from that couple though? An albino can carry another Albino gene, but can a wild type carry TWO different Albino gene..?

If you hatch a normal, you don't know what it is het for. You can't be sure what strain of albino.

 

[WoWo]

I have learned how gene works and if the male's Albino het another Albino, the female is wild het albino, and the baby is wild, it is certainly het albino. Just to make sure i went on the reptile calculator and here's result for Tremper het Bell x Wild het Bell :

	1/4	Bell Albino
	1/4	Wild Type
	1/2	Wild Type HET Bell Albino

And for Tremper het Bell x Wild het Tremper (i do not get it here, not a single albino?!)

	1/4	Wild Type
	1/4	Wild Type HET Bell Albino
	1/4	Wild Type HET Bell Albino, Tremper Albino
	1/4	Wild Type HET Tremper Albino

What remains unknown now is if the female is het albino 33% or 66%. I'm waiting for her 4th egg to hatch, but it seems to be 33% so far. For the Male it's gonna be too complicated. If i said something wrong, correct it of course, but please explain

 

[Kristi23]

If you breed a bell het tremper to a normal, you don't know which babies are het tremper. All would be het bell, but some would carry the tremper gene. This is why it's a big no to mix like that. You can't visually tell which ones would be het tremper. If you test breed, you just end up mixing the strains more.

 

[indyana]

In reply to the calculator results, I do not think you set the calculator up correctly (or didn't wait for the page to finish processing). Here are the ones I did, showing the setup on the side as well.

Tremper het Bell x Wild het Bell:



Tremper het Bell x Wild het Tremper:


From: http://www.reptilecalculator.com/leopard-gecko-morph-calculator/