Choosing a Thermostat

[EasiGregory]

I have two tanks(20g and 40g) of which both have UTH. I'm currently checking temps with a temperature probe but would like to get a thermostat to keep temps in check. I have heard good things about both the Hydrofarm and the Big Apple thermostats but not sure of which one to get. I'm sure there are others in this price range so does anyone else have any other suggestions?

I'm more leaning toward the Big Apple one despite the lack of the digital display just because its made specifically for reptiles and keeping temps in a more specific range.

Looking to spend 100-150$

Links to both for reference:
Big Apple-
BAH-1000DC Reptile Thermostat New Model - Incredibly Reliable Digital Chip for Accurate Temperature Control
HydroFarm-
Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Home & Kitchen

Thanks guys:main_thumbsup:

 

[tb144050]

I don't have alot of experience with thermostats, but I can provide some input.

Both of these are probably "on/off" thermostats, which means that they will provide power to the heat source until it reaches your desired temp.......then it will turn off power completely, causing the temp to drop until it reaches a significant temp drop. Then it will turn power back on until the temp reaches your desired temp again.

I checked both of the links provided and I did not see the "Max output Watts" on either product. Since you will only be powering 1 heatmat per thermostat, you can probably find a smaller Big-Apple thermostat....I think they make a BAH-500, but I can't remember the max-output on that one either.

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Just wanted to make sure you know about "on/off versus proportional thermostats" and make sure you are checking the Max power ratings. And of course....1 probe per tank. So you will need 2 thermostats (1 per tank).

 

[tb144050]

I have two tanks(20g and 40g) of which both have UTH.

...

Looking to spend 100-150$

For roughly another $45 (priced @ $195), you might consider checking out the Herpstat 2 proportional thermostat. I know it has 2 probes and has 2 outputs...max total output of 900W....but I haven't used the Herpstat 2 and it doesn't clearly (to my liking) state that it works well for 2 separate UTH's (in 2 different enclosures). A google search will probably tell you if the Herpstat 2 works well for 2 separate tanks.


I use the Herpstat 1 Basic for my incubator and it keeps my temp within .5F at ALL times because proportional thermostats adjust the level of output power...instead of turning "on/off" (which creates variations/temp-swings). There is a chart at the bottom of the link below.

Spyder Robotics

 

[EasiGregory]

Yeah Ive checked out the spyder robotics thermostats but they are a bit too pricey. Both cages are in different locations in the house so needing to purchase two is a must. Which is why I was leaning towards the slightly cheaper versions.

As for the on/off thermostats I don't really mind. What is everyone else using? I could also do a rheostat but Ive heard they aren't as good for maintaining heat temps. I just need a bit of guidance on which one of the thermostats to get or If I need to head into a different direction. Currently the floor temps in my cages range between 90-100 degrees.

Thanks guys.

 

[EasiGregory]

Ugh I went with the Hydrofarms. Big apple ones seemed a bit over kill atm. Plus the digital display is much nicer imo. I may get into breeding a year from now and Ill most likely do a spyder robotics thermostat for my gecko rack. Ill post an update when I got them and let you all know how they are doing.

 

[tb144050]

Ok...I didn't know if they were close enough for a single thermostat to operate both.

I currently use an "A-Life" brand "on/off" thermostat on my rack. It is similar in design the BigApple Thermostat you linked to. It has the same type of analog temp-control knob.

I have been using it for about 2 months and it seems like I have to adjust it as much as a person would adjust a rheostat (rheostats need adjusting when the room temp or environment changes). I have to adjust it about once/week because it seems to lose "calibration" (??). I set the dial on 91 and the max temp is 89. I watch it for a few days and it is fine. A week later, the max temp on the rack will be reaching 93-94, so I have to turn it down to 85. An hour later, I adjust it back to 91 and the max temp is again 88 or maybe 89.

It took alot of "trial and error" to find the perfect position (91F) on the dial that gets the tubs NO HOTTER than 89F. (I have individual temp probes on each of my 3 shelves in an empty "mock" tub).

Overall, you will probably expect a product that is also "a little under par" when it comes to quality, but you will probably find them good enough to "get the job done" as long as you keep an eye on the temps and adjust down if necessary.

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For the lower price and a digital display, I would try the hydrofarm digital. Hopefully the digital design will provide more accuracy than the analog thermostats. It would be great if it was actually a proportional thermostat, but for the low price...that would be too good to be true.

 

[EasiGregory]

Yeah I didn't make that very clear on where each tank was located Just got the email that the HydroFarm thermostats are on there way. Ill get them by Wednesday! Ill post back as how they do once I get them dialed in and give them time to start working. I'm quite excited as the temps in my enclosures is changing constantly.

One thing I would like to ask any person that has experience with slate tile and thermostats...Do I put the probe under the slate? Currently I have a 1/4 inch layer of sand and then place the tiles on top. Right now I'm laying my thermometer probe on top of the slate but I'm not sure if that's correct? Should I put a bit more sand in and burry the probe then place the tiles on top? If not how do I get the tile to lay flat with the probe under it? Any direction would be helpful to ensure my temps are correct. Thanks guys/gals

 

[Elgreco]

I use tile and have a hydrofarm thermostat. I would be careful with using it with an UTH. The temp probe doesn't react to temp changes super fast. That means you could have it set for 89 but the surface temp on the tile is 100+ (measured with temp gun). I personally don't use my UTH and stick with a ceramic heat lamp. It provides more consistent temps with the tile and hydrofarm. I basically lay the probe flat on the tile.

 

[EasiGregory]

Yeah Ive thought about adding another small layer of sand and burying the temp probe under the tile. I'm sure Ill have to play around with it to get it right. Currently I have a hide on top of where my probe is at, which lays directly on top of the slate tile. Sometimes it goes into the low 100s and other times its down in the low 90s. Yesterday I tried burying my thermometer probe under the tile in the sand and it shot up to 115!!

I think whether or not I bury it or lay it flat on the surface using the HydroFarm will provide a safer more consistent heat temperature for my geckos. Just want to make sure I'm measuring the heat properly(above or below slate).

Thanks Elgreco!

 

[tb144050]

Remember to factor in the ...ummm...physics(??)... of thermal-whatever... (doesn't sound like I know what I am talking about, but hear me out...I am sleepy and can't think of the words). lol

edit: DYNAMICS(??)!! I think it is called thermal dynamics..haha

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If using an UTH:

-burying the t-stat probe in the sand is a) closer to the heat source; and b) less affected by room temps affecting the surface temp. So you will get a VERY consistant sand-temp, and your surface temp should vary very little due to room air-temp. If using this method, set the room air temp to 80F (or hottest air temp the room reaches), and set the t-stat to whatever temp results in a surface temp of 90F. Because this is the MAX room temp, the normally lower air temp in the room, will slightly reduce the 90F surface temp (@ 80F room temp) by 1 - 3 degrees F. 87F-90F is a great surface temp goal....especially when using an "on/off" t-stat, you want to "err on the safe side" and have a common temp that is a little cooler (instead of a common hotter-temp).

-placing the t-stat probe on top of tile (but firmly held down by a heavy warm hide) will result in more fluctuations due to changing air temp. After all, 60% of your probe is contacting air. I see this as a relatively safe practice, but will require more observation under different room temps (over a few days) to be sure that the surface temp is approx 87F-90F no matter what the airtemp is.

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Whichever way you choose, I would recommend getting a IR temp gun for fast accurate surface-temping. Thermometers with probes, even when pressed against the surface, are still likely to be affected by air temp (see above about t-stat probes) but they will definitely take a couple of minutes to settle on the "approx. temp."

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Your third option (to provide a STEADY consistent amount of heat): Get the current surface temp at the hottest point (with just the full-power UTH..not regulated by a t-stat). Then add sand or another layer of tile to allow heat to dissipate before reaching the surface. This will give you the full steady unregulated UTH, but you adjust the "distance from heat source" to lower the temp to your desired surface temp.

Note: Sand "dissipates" heat less than tile. If you want to lower surface temp MORE, I would add a layer of tile. If you want to lower surface temp JUST A COUPLE OF DEGREES, I would add maybe 1 or 2 cm of more sand. Sand packed down more solidly...so it transfers heat better without losing as much. Tile tends to be porous and has gaps between tiles....so it tends to dissipate heat to the air a little better, so it will give you more surface-temp-drop.

 

[tb144050]

Gregory, I also saw you asked for feedback on hammocks in another post, but I did not want to "thread jack" that post and start talking on his post.

I have a hammock in 4 different aquarium tanks right now. I have 2 Leo's that like to bask on the hammock under the heatlamp (hammock is only 2", level, above the floor...touches the top of the warm hide). 1 Leo in another tank loves to hide ON the warm hide UNDER the hammock...lol And in the other tank, they just go poopie under it...haha.

Overall, most of them like it alot for whatever reason. At the very least, I am sure the other Leo atleast climbs it once or twice a day when he comes out to play, so it is good exercise too.

You can get them for around $3-4 on Petstore.co_ website. I order all my stuff at once to take advantage of the "$6 shipping + $0.01/item" and their great prices. ;D

 

[EasiGregory]

Wow great response, thanks allot! I usually keep my house temps around 74 degrees but with spring and summer coming up I may reduce that down to 72 degrees. Whichever way I go the ambient air temps should always be about the same.

My upstairs tanks ambient air temp on the cool side hovers between 74-76 degrees and the hot side floor temps fluctuate too much currently(which is why I'm buying a thermostat lol) but are around 96-101 degrees(again why I'm buying a thermostat). I don't monitor the ambient air temps on the hot side...should I?

My downstairs tank is a bit different in that the cool side ambient air temps sit at a constant 70-74 degrees(too low in my opinion) and that's only because I keep a moonlight/light heat lamp on the cool side. I don't know how else to raise the air temps to be in the higher 70s without doing a heat bulb(I have one but I don't know If I should use it). The floor temp on the hot side fluctuates as well...still don't know If I should be monitoring the air temps on the hot side or just the floor temps.

I'm now planning on putting a notch in the tile where the thermostat probe will go so It wont be buried but also wont be laying on top of the tile. I think this will give me a good temp to go off of that will accurately depict the floor temps of the slate while minimizing the effects of the air temps. I'm also planning on removing the sticky thermometers on the cool side and putting the current ones I'm using for the hot side floor temps to monitor the air temps on the cool side. I may also remove the moonlight bulb downstairs and replace it with my heat(no light) bulb and place it on low in the middle of the tank to increase the over all ambient air temps. What do you guys think?

Thanks for all of your responses! It has been very helpful.

tb144050...I'm going to go buy two hammocks and see how my leos like it. If they don't I'm holding you personally responsible

 

[tb144050]

so here is your current setup:

Upstairs tank
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Room temp: 74F clease confirm???
coolside ambient air temp: 74-76
warmside floortemp: 96-101


Downstairs tank
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Room temp: 74F
coolside ambient air temp: 70-74
warmside floor temps: ??
moonlight installed

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Your downstairs tank is probably in the room with the A/C's thermostat....or maybe getting a draft from a nearby A/C vent or fan?? I normally expect an upstair room (of equal insulation/ventilation) to have a higher "Room temp" because the heat inside the home rises upstairs....and because any/all sunlight shines onto the roof, putting heat into the attic/upstairs.

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A good goal for a setup is:

Warmside floor temp = 90F

coolside floor temp = roomtemp (but no less than 70F)

ambient air temps = anywhere between 70F - 80'sF (the UTH usually helps to provide a nice ambient air temp gradient as well, because the heat dissipating to the air from the warm floor keeps that air a little warmer)

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I agree that notching a tile to increase surface-contact with your t-stat probe will give you much more accurate floor-temps (and less affected by changing air temps, such as heat-waves from heatlamps or A/C ventilation).

I would:

1) Install the t-stat and set at 90F. Confirm surface temps with IR temp gun.

2) Then confirm ambient air temps (cool and hot) are between 70F <-> 85F.

3) If your ambient air temp on the coolside falls below 70F, I would add a 15w or 25w ceramic heat emitter (bulb) to the MIDDLE of the tank. This will evenly distribute the "bulb's" heat to warm and coolside (maintaining the gradient) and more importantly, it will not be shining heat directly onto the warm side (interfering with steady temps.). SPECIAL NOTE: If you decide you need a bulb over the middle, move your t-stat probe to the hottest location now.....which will be "over the UTH, but slightly under the bulb".
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Note: An unregulated UTH in a 65F room temp with a 60w heat bulb (over the UTH) can create warmside surface temps of 115+F.... So don't ever create a gradient by placing a bulb directly over the hot side UTH (especially unregulated)......unless of course you live in Antarctica....then you might need to.. ;D

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If your Leo doesn't like laying on or hiding under the hammocks, you can hang the hammocks on the out-sides of the tank and use them as pockets to store supplements or other small supplies for easy-access.

 

[EasiGregory]

Yes to the first with a moonlight sometimes over the warm hide covering the UTH hot spot...Will most likely move that to the middle over the moist hide and only on at night before bed(7PM - 9PM).

Yes to the second with floor temps the same as the first. Its just cooler in the basement due to a lack of appropriate vents. I usually keep a floor heater in the room(my daughters bedroom BTW) which helps keep it in a good ambient air temp during the cooler nights. I will most likely place a low wattage heat emitter in the middle of the tank to keep air temps in the correct range(The one I currently have is 60w but I think that may be too high so I may take it back). And will keep the moonlight for night viewing?

I need to get an IR temp gun..are they expensive? Any good ones you can recommend?

Notching the slate for the probe is a 100% go.

Thank you, as you have pointed out a few things I'm doing wrong and will be addressing those things tonight when I get home. One of my females in the basement is currently shedding and having a hard time with it. So maybe this stuff may help.

I think my two females would LOVE the hammock as they love to climb stuff plus it would add a bit of a hiding spot/

 

[tb144050]

You can get an IR temp checker from eBay or Amazon for around $20, sometimes less.

If they are having problems shedding, be SURE that the moist hide is staying moist. You can also spritz them with a water spray bottle a couple of times per day (though they might hate that). After they shed, if they have pieces of shed stuck on anywhere, be sure to give them a 10minute soak in belly-deep 88F water, and then you can GENTLY help to RUB the shed off toes & tail. If there is shed stuck on skin, bathsoak and gently use a q-tip to rub it. If shed is stuck on eyes, search this forum for "shed stuck on eyes" and find some "success stories" about how to help that (because I haven't had to do it yet).

Thanks for the "thanks". Be sure to click the "Thanks button" at the bottom left of any post that you ever find useful to give "credit" to the author.

 

[EasiGregory]

Yeah I refresh the moist hide every 2-3 days and make sure its moist. Anything else I can do besides the bath to help her out? Remember that I just got her(2 weeks) and haven't gotten to pick her up or handle her at all due to her being really jumpy. I'm not sure she will allow for me to give her a bath

And yeah, I've been making it a point to thank anyone that has helped me! Which has been a lot so far. But I want to give credit where credit is due!

 

[tb144050]

If there is stuck shed anywhere on them after a shed, you won't be able to avoid stressing them. You'll have to help them even if they don't like it.

The good news is that you don't actually have to "bathe" them. Once you catch them, juut let them soak in 88F water (in a bowl/tub tall enough they can't escape) for ten minutes, occasionally pouring some of the water over them to moisturize the upper skin. Be sure it is only belly-deep so they can stand in it safely.

After the soak, you can use your fingers to gently rub away any stuck skin on each toe or on the tailtip. Some people recommend using tweezers but I feel safer just rubbing. It's like the world's gentlest game of "pull my finger" haha.

You really can't avoid them being squirley. My best technique is to gently "cup" them with one hand (like holding a 20oz coke bottle) and let them grab my finger on my cupping-hand. Then you have the opportunity to "full a finger" until they get squirley again. If they try to wiggle away, you have to readjust your cupping-hand and go at it again.

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They never really sit still for shed-assistance, but on the other topic of her being jumpy, you can browse the "General Discussion" section and find several discussions about taming your Leo. The basic approach is "slow and steady". Every day, put your hand on the floor and let them investigate/smell you. Once they are comfortable approaching your hand, I dare to catch them and let them wander "hand-to-hand" everyday until they seem comfortable. I now have some Leo's that will climb my hand to get out...others walk over it and check it out comfortably...but there are 2 (that I don't work with much) that investigate but don't touch my hand. These 2 are my strongest wigglers and most frantic escapers (both heavy-weight males). I think there is a connection between their fast growth and "don't touch me" attitudes.

 

[EasiGregory]

Yeah honestly I'm still hesitant around them as I used to deal with boas which would bite and snap quite often. So now when I go to deal with geckos and they stiffen up or start swirling there tail my brain tells me they are going to snap. Its mainly me breaking that mentality, which wont be easy. Plus for some reason I keep thinking they are going to drop there tail if I try and pick them up.

On the note of my lady shedding..I came home tonight to her mostly finished. She still has a bit on each of the front feet and a piece on her head. Other then that she has taken care of the rest of it. She is now showing her beautiful colors again. So tonight I went in and shooed her out of the moist hide to give it a nice freshen up and will give her till tomorrow to clear up. If not Ill suck it up and jump in.

 

[hgual22]

I have the hydrofarms one. I'm a first time leo owner, and it was reccomended to me, so i got it, and its really easy to use, always keeps the mat 89-91 degrees. It was very easy to use as well. ​I like it.