Chronic shedding, eye and skin problems - and getting worse!

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

About your leo:
- Sex - Female
- Age & Weight - Around 5 yo and 70 grams
- How long have you owned your leo - Since she was 6 months old
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend) - Breeder. Golden Gate Geckos.

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo - Daily to apply medicine at this point and to help with shedding

- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. -

- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. - See below. This is a chronic problem I'm still seeking solutions for.


B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal) - Normal
- When was the last time he/she went - Today. She's pretty regular.

C) Problem

Started when she was around 2- her eyes would just get all crusted shut. Saw a few different exotics vets but none could figure out the problem. I tend to apply plain saline to her eyes to clear them up but it's a daily thing.

About a year ago she started having more trouble shedding, leaving huge chunks on her legs and tail. She ALWAYS has a humid hide available and I'll increase humidity when I see her in shed but nothing helps. I have to soak and help her each time.

And now her skin is getting worse- it 'puckers' when she sheds and forms open, bleeding sores D: (And I'm not pulling the shed off before it's ready, it's simply doing this on its own- I always wait a day or two after she's given up herself so I can be sure the skin has fully separated. But it seems now like large patches just aren't fully separating and they won't come off even when I give her soaks or gently rub with wet gauze.)

I HAVE BEEN TO SEVERAL VETS. The current one is the best one I've found in a 100 mi radius but even he is stumped. For her eyes since one of them had a scratch she is getting anti-inflammatory drops (flurbiprofen sodium opthalmic solution) a few times a week, and an antibiotic ointment (neomycin and polymyxin B sulfates and bacitracin zin opthalmic ointment). For the wounds I am applying silver sulfadiazine cream a few times a week.

Her eyes are okay as long as I rinse them daily with saline, but her skin is worsening.

They aren't burns- she can't reach any heating elements in her cage and I have checked the temps. There's nothing with sharp edges either.

On the plus side she has a very healthy appetite even though she needs to be hand fed, but it's so stressful every time she sheds! And the bleeding is seriously concerning me.

She's a 'Super Mack Snow' morph for the record... Has anyone else with these unusual morphs experienced problems like this? I wouldn't be surprised if the breeding required to get such an unusual look resulted in some defects too, like with some dog breeds

My other two leos eat the same food and receive identical care and are thriving, so I don't think it's a vitamin deficiency (neither does the vet), otherwise they would show the same symptoms.


Housing:
A)
20 gallon glass tank
Slate tile substrate
3 different cave and log hides

B) Heating
- Heat source - UTH and red bulb, both controlled with dimmers
Hot side - 90 F, cool side 75F
Measured with Heat gun
She does have a UVB light (forget the brand exactly but I have a Solarmeter and it gives off a proper low amount)

C) Cage mates
None, ever

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
Gutloaded, dusted crickets, hand fed because she can't see well enough to hunt
She won't eat anything else :T
Used to give her silkworms but I haven't been able to find or afford them lately

B) Supplements (describe how often)
Herptivite 1x week and Repcal calcium (no D3 since she has UVB)
- What are you gut loading food with - Fresh veggies and a general roach/insect gutload (I forget where I bought it, I get it in 20 lb batches)

 

[sausage]

sorry to hear shes having a problem.

One of my males has an eye problem that sound like yours. i took him to several vets, antibiotics and eye drops did not help. last year i tried another vet who discovered that he had a blocked tear duct, which meant the tears were coming out the eye and crusting instead of going back round the the system ect. he had an op to try and unblock it witch was partly successful however the vet thinks that its something he will suffer with for the rest of his life.
I was told to clean his eye daily or as needed with plain luke warm water as the saline can cause more irritation. try switching to plain water, you can boil water and bottle it ready for use if you want to.

as for the skin condition im a bit stumped. the only thing i can think of is the UVB light.
most ppl say you dont need one but you can have one on a few conditions.
it has to be no more the 2% UVB and on for only a few hours a day (2 or 3 i think). how long do you leave yours on for? as this could cause skin burns in the same way the sun does to us.

you should still use calcium with D3 as well. every now and then if you have a light because as far as im aware lights are unreliable in the sense that the UV diminishes over time and it has to be at the right level for UV to be absorbed atall ect. so its good to make sure you give her something to ensure shes getting enough.

does your vitamin mix contain vit A? this is important for health skin and shedding.

could you post any pictures of her and the skin condition?

 

[tb144050]

^^^ +1

From my readings, i'd agree.

Uvb can cause skin burns
uvb diminish and should be replaced annualy (at minimum)
Vit a and other supplement (especially if the uvb is failing)
What is the ambient air temp and does she drink enough water (dehydration)?
Have you tried misting her a couple times daily during the shed cycle? (helps mine)
Also, how often does she shed (regular cycle)?

And as you said, as an amateur i would consider the possibily of her genetics causing her to be more suscptible to burns/etc.
(some humans sunburn easier)

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Do you have a moist hide? My guess would be humidity and/or vitamin issues. I would get a humidity gauge, they're cheap around $5-10 and monitor it. Most of mine are kept a bit above my usual house humidity in Ohio, like 50-70% humidity and then I keep a moist hide in their tank as well. Sometimes the over tank lights leech the humidity out of the enclosure and cause more issues than you might think.

Feeding only one food source, such as crickets can result in deficiencies. I would try to vary her diet and pick up some super worms or dubia roaches as an alternative. Most pet stores carry superworms at a similar price to crickets. I would also try a vitamin supplement that contains vitamin A if you're having shedding issues. The beta carotene in Hertivite may be hard to synthesize to vitamin A by reptiles if they are lacking other things in their diet as well. Repashy Calcium Plus or Vionate may be a good switch for a few months to role this out as a possible cause.

Good luck and let us know if you figure something out!

 

[Ivyna J. Spyder]

Thanks for the replies all!

Urrgggh I think you are right on the money with it being the UVB though... I never thought about it, but such a pale skinned morph is probably way more susceptible to burns... I put it in originally because a previous vet (not the good one) insisted on it. I feel so bad.

So she's on a strict no-light regimen, except for ambient. Her eyes are doing better already so here's hoping!

Weird thing is, this is not a new UVB... It's been in her tank for a while, a year at least, but the really bad symptoms have been recent. Doesn't UVB go DOWN over time? :T Hmm. I'll need to do some experimenting, it's worrying if somehow the UV index went up or something...


As for food, unfortunately I've never been able to get her to eat anything but crickets or silkworms, and the latter have been out of my price range lately. My other geckos eat roaches and superworms in addition to crickets but Khione doesn't seem to recognize them as food, even if I bump them against her mouth. It's weird.

Also I tried Repashy Calcium Plus a while back and had a really bad experience! None of my three geckos would eat anything dusted with it. Not sure if I got a bad batch or what but I'm not sure about giving it another try.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

If they're fat or even full they may not eat something strange. I usually offer healthy adult geckos the new thing they won't eat right away as their only food for 2 weeks or so. If they still won't eat after that then I'd give it a rest and try again some other time but it takes a while for them to get hungry enough to be adventurous. If your geckos are overweight it might take a month or more of fasting or on a really reduced diet (like 2 crickets per week or so) for them to get hungry.

 

[tb144050]

I wonder if the ABSENCE of 1 spectrum of UV light intensifies the output of the remaining spectrums from that worn-out bulb? Anyone have any input on wornout UV bulbs?

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Ultra violet waves are part of the electromagnetic spectrum. They consist of waves that are shorter than those of visible light. UV bulbs have a special component that emits waves in the UV frequency (100-400 nanometers) as well as those in the visible light frequency (400-700 nanometers). I don't believe there are separate components of waves in the UV spectrum that could wear out but the component in the bulb that produces them definitely could wear out even though the bulb still emits visible light.

I don't believe that leos need UV light. They are primarily crepuscular animals in the wild and don't spend much, if any, time out in the sun. I try to keep bright lights (including UV) away from my animals as I think they do more harm than good by causing unnecessary stress and possibly burns if they are used excessively and/or the gecko has no place to hide from them.

 

[Ozy]

I would do the no lights and Repashy Calcium Plus. If your geckos are a healthy weight, they can go a couple of weeks without eating and not suffer any ill effects. They will eat the stuff dusted with it when they get hungry enough.