Colors fading

[Brian O]

I have always wondered why some lines hold their colors better than others. Especially the higher end Tangs that some lines seem to lose colors more drastically than others. What have some of you found in your collections in regards to this?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

The only loss of color I've ever had in my Tangs is during the stress of breeding season. Maybe I've just been lucky?

 

[Brian O]

That was what I was talking about. I am just wondering if people have had the same results with certain lines fading more than others?Like why does a gecko go from this to this?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Not to completely discredit any breeders, but has anyone considered diet (more specifically the diet of the feeders - IE carrots)? Their also are dietary color enhancers I've seen advertised in REPTILES.

 

[Brian O]

Yet others hold their color like this.
Before

and after

 

[Brian O]

Here is another example
before

after

 

[Brian O]

I know about enhancers. I wasn't trying to bust someone out. I was wondering if anyone out there were getting the same results in the different lines? Maybe these are just flukes or maybe certain lines do fade? I would like to determine which ones do fade before dwelling into why.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Brian, I don't know if it has to do with certain lines as much as individual geckos. Within my own RRS project I have seen some that have held color very well while a few have had major fading. I'm not sure what the determining factors are that play into it.

 

[Brian O]

Thanks Jeremy, thats some of what I was looking for. I was wondering if people with some of the other lines have the same results? (TUG, HISS, HG)
I want to see if the high end Tangs are holding their color or if this was just a fluke? I have a couple of animals from one line that have all faded significantly while other lines have consistently held their color. Once again I am just trying to learn something and not bust anyone out.

 

[Ian S.]

There's actually alot of reptile species that darken during breeding . It's an occurance that happens mainly because the animals naturally darken in order to better blend with their surroundings in the wild to better protect themselves from predation. Reason being is they're primary goal in life is to reproduce. Sorry don't mean to sound like a smarty pants. I think that the further along the generation of captive breds, the less the animal has the need to darken. I think some of it may also have to do with the amount of stress the individual animal is put under during courtship. Some of my males that are "brutal breeders" as I call them, tend to darken alot more. The females as well. Rather than the pimps that seem to gently grab a hold of the females tail and caress their way up to the neck.

 

[roaches42993]

Heres a direct quote from Ron Tempers site in which how he believes leo's colors will fade and briten :

Some years ago a researcher by the name of Brian Viets published a paper showing the effects temperature had on melanin in leopard geckos during egg incubation. Basically he proved that at low temps (80F range) clutch mates had more black pigment laid down in the skin during incubation than those incubated at the 90F range. (a chapter on this subject can be found in THE LEOPARD GECKO MANUAL.)

Over my years of daily work with these geckos (prior to the appearance of the first amelanistic albinos) I noticed, like many fellow breeders, that high yellow males tended to be more colorful than high yellow females, which totally agreed with Viets' findings. It does not take too much thought to then carry this finding to the next level and ask yourself if all other skin pigments could be effected by temperature in leopard geckos. My findings strongly suggest this is true.

When the color black became absent, as in the new amelanistic albino lines, it was much easier to conduct a study on the other skin pigments. Pictured below are two clutch mates. The photos speak volumes by themselves. I have repeated this temperature test on over 200 clutch mates and 100% of the findings were the same. In this case the parents were tangerine albinos.





The female albino hatchling on the left was incubated at 80F for 62 days. Her clutch mate brother was incubated at 90F for 34 days.

Below are the same two siblings at 7 months of age.




My tests show that the lower the incubation temperature the more the darker pigments are laid down in the skin. Hence the brown pigment displayed in all albino leopard gecko lines is the result of temperature and not genetics, which explains how some breeders have all "pretty" albinos and some do not. These results now give the breeder a great advantage to get the best possible offspring from their projects.

In the near future, I will be posting photos of albinos that have changed color from light to dark after hatching due to exposure to temperatures below 84F even as adults. This is a phenomena unique to leopard geckos. Keeping your albinos with a 90F hot spot all the time will prevent this migration of pigment in their skin.

All other information regarding this subject is on my Temperature Color Dependence FAQ page.

notice towards the end when he says :

In the near future, I will be posting photos of albinos that have changed color from light to dark after hatching due to exposure to temperatures below 84F even as adults. This is a phenomena unique to leopard geckos. Keeping your albinos with a 90F hot spot all the time will prevent this migration of pigment in their skin.

tempature might have somthing to do with it ?

 

[nwheat]

I think this is a very interesting question. I know some breeders - like Dan L., I believe - have been working on breeding animals that keep their color.

I kept two of my brightest hatchlings from my one breeding pair last season. They were practically twins. Now, and even at the very start of breeding season, one is still very bright, while the other is pretty dark. I suppose it could be stress levels as Ian suggested. The bright one is in a group that seems to get along very well and the male is gentle. The darker one is in a group that seems to have a fair amount of discord among the females.

My brightest female, from Albey, has retained her color beautifully and she is near the end of her laying season.

 

[roaches42993]

http://www.bigappleherp.com/bigappl...2600fac018271d424d361a0659+EN/products/470150

on the 15th when I get 2 hovas from them I can get the yellow one free . as 2 of my SHTCT are kinda a dull yellow im gona use it on them to see if it relly works . after that I will probly do the exact oppisite of what temper did to see if I can get the orange on there offsprings tails a little darker . I tell you how it works .

 

[Brian O]

Just so everyone knows I am not looking for reasons why they are losing their color. I want to see if any who has high end geckos from some of the big name breeders are experiencing the same thing I am finding in certain lines.
I am already aware of the result of temp on hatchlings and juveniles. Also that temp drops can darken adults. This is a case of lightening or color loss. Not darkening and gaining black.
Stress will make a color drop but it seems odd that only two from one breeder had the significant color loss. All of them are under the same conditions and had the same stud.

 

[roaches42993]

oh ok then, I have a female with parents from hiss and the hypo gecko Ill monitor her over the next couple of months and see if I notice any color drops .

 

[G & M Geckos]

I have a female from HISS lines. She didn't lose any color last season but this season she did lose a little. My main male tang is suppose to be a cross from HISS x TUG (I have not confirmed that totally just what I was told) He tends to lose color by the end of the breeding season but then colors back up during the off time.

 

[Ian S.]

Just so everyone knows I am not looking for reasons why they are losing their color. I want to see if any who has high end geckos from some of the big name breeders are experiencing the same thing I am finding in certain lines.
I am already aware of the result of temp on hatchlings and juveniles. Also that temp drops can darken adults. This is a case of lightening or color loss. Not darkening and gaining black.
Stress will make a color drop but it seems odd that only two from one breeder had the significant color loss. All of them are under the same conditions and had the same stud.

As I said, it possibly may have something to do with how much further along the captive bred generations are.(not certain just a guess) I really think It pretty much is what it is, rather than who's line it is. I've had geckos darken from hines line, HISS, and Urbans as well as alot of the red stripes I work with. My Super hypo het hybino from Kelli got super dark when I bred him and fired right back up after I seperated him from the girlies. Same with the Urbans. However the Hines seemed to just stay dark if thats what your looking for. Some of the Hines and urban Shtctb's even developed some spotting that wasn't showing previous to ageing and breeding. I don't know really if it's kosher to say that one line darkens more than another. The same gecko that bred in previous years and held all it's color, could darken with it's next breeding cycle. So who knows just some thoughts my man.:main_thumbsup:

 

[Brian O]

I have been breeding exclusively hypos for 6 seasons now. I have geckos from TUG, HISS, GG, Ray Hines, Albeys, Hypo Gecko, along with a few smaller breeders, and have hatched and watched the development of more geckos than I can remember.
What I have found is that some do carry their color better than others. These aren't just a one animal case study I am talking about either.
I am not asking about SHT's from three years ago. These would be from geckos from last year or the year before. Mainly in TUG's TT, HISS Electric line, and whatever Dan at HG is calling his smoking orange geckos. I wanted to see if anyone who actually owns some of these elite animals has any imput on this topic.