Conservation of Leopard Gecko genetics?

snowgyre

New Member
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Athens, GA
I'm not an expert on leopard gecko genetics, but considering that there has been a lot of concern over the status of wild leopard gecko populations, I was wondering if anybody is trying to preserve subspecies genetics? At this point, I'm not even sure of the true status of wild leopard geckos, as they occur in geographical areas that aren't well studied.

I recall a thread I posted in once regarding the crossing of albino strains in leopard geckos, where we discussed that it was important to keep the albino strains 'pure' by not crossing into other strains. At first the crosses were important to verify that the albino strains were indeed genetically different, but that after the initial tests were performed, it was important to keep double albino hets out of the gene pool.

There is a lot of interest in crossing subspecies such as E.m. macularius, E.m. montanus, E.m. fasciolatus, and E.m. afghanicus, and I've seen it mainly advertised from the 'increase the genetic variation of your collection!' point of view.

While it is indeed very important to maintain genetic variation in your collection, I think it's much more important to maintain the genetic distinction of subspecies by not outcrossing them at every chance. That way, if a leopard gecko subspecies does go extinct in the wild, then we have genetic stock to work with possible reintroduction efforts.

Now, I've got two main questions for people.

1. Is anybody actually working on preserving the genetic distinction of certain subspecies by having exclusive subspecies colonies?

And:

2. Are there enough individuals from each subspecies to actually have enough genetic variety to avoid inbreeding depression in captive subspecies colonies?
 
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Nigel4less

Guest
1) Yes I personally am working with a fairly large group of E. m. Afghanicus

2) If not we can always bring in more from Europe ;)
 

crotaphytidae

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370
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Utah
Personally I would love to get my hands on as many subspecies of leos as I can. I plan to do so in the future and I plan to keep them pure but also take my males from the subspecies and breed them into my morph stocks to introduce more vigor and vitality into the bloodlines. At the same time I think it is important that we understand that the current "subspecies" that we have in the hobby aren't entirely recognized by science, the closest one that is the most widely accepted is Eublepharis macularius afghanicus and even then most herpetologists only recognize it a variant. In order to truly conserve anything in the wild it needs to be recognized by science and with the limited research being done in that region of the world it might be awhile before we see any sort of study mapping out the genetic variance within the species to clearly define which are valid subspecies or species. Even in the US the Collared Lizard is truly underrated for the vast amount of genetic variation it has and has only recently even been studied on a nuclear level which has yielded information that there are potentially dozens of species in what was thought to have been one.
 
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Nigel4less

Guest
Why is anyone concerned by wild leo populations? They're listed as least concern.

Well I think it is still important to preserve them even if E. macularius isn't an endangered species, we need to keep it that way. Now some of the other species such as E. turcmenicus, E. hardwickii, and E. angramainyu are a different story.
 

cassadaga

Oregon Rainwater
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Portland, OR
I agree with preservation, all the time, but we're no where near the point of needing to release captive stock into the wild.
 

snowgyre

New Member
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588
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Athens, GA
Anthony (or Melissa, whoever was chatting), I honestly didn't know the status of wild leos, only that some members have expressed concern on the board about wild populations. Still, I think the overall lesson here is important in that, regardless of the status of wild leos, that it's important to preserve the genetic integrity and diversity of captive leos by not crossbreeding them to heck and back.

Nigel, that is great!!! How big is your colony of afghanicus? Do you have any long term breeding plans (ie. keeping track of family trees, etc) for your colony?

Geez, it's been ages since I took beef cattle genetics, but it seems that the same principle could be applied here. Makes me feel like looking at those eigenvalues again. >.> Okay, not really.
 

eyelids

Bells Rule!
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I held off breeding my female Afghanicus for nearly two seasons so I could breed her with a male Afghanicus... I'm desperate to outcross my Bell and Blizzard projects so I will be using my male for that... My goal is to primarily work with pure Eublepharis species/subspecies with morphs being just small side projects... I am willing to move to Europe to make it happen... :main_lipsrsealed: :D
 
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Nigel4less

Guest
Anthony (or Melissa, whoever was chatting), I honestly didn't know the status of wild leos, only that some members have expressed concern on the board about wild populations. Still, I think the overall lesson here is important in that, regardless of the status of wild leos, that it's important to preserve the genetic integrity and diversity of captive leos by not crossbreeding them to heck and back.

Nigel, that is great!!! How big is your colony of afghanicus? Do you have any long term breeding plans (ie. keeping track of family trees, etc) for your colony?

Geez, it's been ages since I took beef cattle genetics, but it seems that the same principle could be applied here. Makes me feel like looking at those eigenvalues again. >.> Okay, not really.


Well we have 4 males and geez i don't even know how many females, each male has his own group A,B,C,D... and the chain goes on.
 

paulnj

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10,508
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NJ USA
2 male afghans, male "fasciolatus", male montanus very soon.... females hahaha plenty :)

pure, outcross... all of the above.

Eric has some awesome pure afghans, as do a few other breeders I know and trust.

Nigel, good luck with those projects bro!
 
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Nigel4less

Guest
2 male afghans, male "fasciolatus", male montanus very soon.... females hahaha plenty :)

pure, outcross... all of the above.

Eric has some awesome pure afghans, as do a few other breeders I know and trust.

Nigel, good luck with those projects bro!

Someone's gotta produce the SuperGhanicus ;)
 

eyelids

Bells Rule!
Messages
10,728
Location
Wisconsin
Nigel, are each of your groups from distinct populations? If you have non A&M "stock" put me down for a male pretty please... :wink3:
 

eyelids

Bells Rule!
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Location
Wisconsin
I realize my post may seem to suggest I don't care for A&M... I should have been clear and said my pair is A&M "stock" and I want to get an unrelated male to further outcross in the future... Also, my current male is superb and by no means will I ever look to replace him...
 

paulnj

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10,508
Location
NJ USA
Those in the know understand that all known afghans released where from the same lines or released by A&M up until recently :) All of most subs were from the same stock I do believe...

Mike, I will do my best to aquire you a unrelated male from europe/asia, but it may take time ;)
 
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Nigel4less

Guest
Those in the know understand that all known afghans released where from the same lines or released by A&M up until recently :) All of most subs were from the same stock I do believe...

Mike, I will do my best to aquire you a unrelated male from europe/asia, but it may take time ;)

Thank you Paul, all the Afghans in the US currently are Dutch Line...
 

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