Do I need a thermostat? Please help...

[maggiee22195]

Hey guys, so I have been searching through the threads and I noticed that people are saying that some use a thermostat to regulate their hovabator temp. and some don't. I was wondering, do you NEED a thermostat when you are using a hovabator?
I thought you just plug it in, set it to the right temp, and make sure the temp. isn't all over the place.
I have never been told to use a thermostat... what do you guys think?
Thank you to all in advance!

 

[Fencer04]

The hovabator isn't known for having the most accurate thermostat so many people use an external one. I have always had to but have met some lucky people who's hovabator thermostat stayed fairly stable.

Just put a thermometer in there and calibrate the thermostat to the temp you want. Make sure that it stays pretty much the same. As long as that happens you don't need an external thermostat.

 

[maggiee22195]

The hovabator isn't known for having the most accurate thermostat so many people use an external one. I have always had to but have met some lucky people who's hovabator thermostat stayed fairly stable.

Just put a thermometer in there and calibrate the thermostat to the temp you want. Make sure that it stays pretty much the same. As long as that happens you don't need an external thermostat.

Ok. Thank you for answering that! I think my hovabator has not fluctuated more than 1 or 2 degrees... is that going to be detrimental to my leo eggs? will they survive going from 83 degrees to either 85 or 81 degrees?

 

[Fencer04]

Everything should be fine. 1 to 2 degrees won't be a problem.

 

[maggiee22195]

Everything should be fine. 1 to 2 degrees won't be a problem.

Ok. Thanks again!

 

[Reborn]

Is this 1 or 2 degrees at night tho? Night is when there is a drop in temps which may drop more(day it may rise more then it should). Personally i would never risk it. the life of the eggs is at stake ya know? Why risk it? Its known for having a wacky thermostat so instead of waiting and seeing if it does deside to flop out be prepared:main_thumbsup:

 

[M_surinamensis]

Ok. Thank you for answering that! I think my hovabator has not fluctuated more than 1 or 2 degrees... is that going to be detrimental to my leo eggs? will they survive going from 83 degrees to either 85 or 81 degrees?

Have you actually measured the temperature in the Hovabator for a few days with a thermometer that can record data over time?

Or double checked it with multiple thermometers to test the accuracy and calibration of the internal thermostat?

Temperature changes can have varying degrees of impact on egg development not only as a result of the total change, but as a result of the rate and duration of the changes- faster changes and longer periods outside the ideal are more likely to have more of an impact.

Hovabators are the cheap incubation option. They do not provide precision environmental controls or top of the line measurement tools. They give you a reasonable chance for success most the time, provided nothing happens that would kick in the fail safe and backup features of more elaborate and higher quality systems. They're not accurate to one one hundreth of a degree, they have no secondary systems that kick in to save the eggs in cases of mechanical failure, they're sort of decently insulated but not to a point where they're immune to external changes.

You can make some changes, use multiple thermometers and thermostats, make sure the unit is placed in a room/spot that is not going to experience lots of temperature changes... but after a point, you may as well just dump the cheap model and buy a better incubator to begin with, since do-it-yourself redundancies are going to cost about the same amount.

 

[Fencer04]

So my question would be, what is a better incubator option that doesn't cost $300. It seems to me other than the reptibator and the mini fridge there isn't anything between the hovabator and much more expensive options. Not arguing with your point, I'm just looking at buying an incubator and am looking for options that you describe.

 

[M_surinamensis]

There really isn't, which was my point.

Quality and price go hand in hand when it comes to buying or upgrading incubators.

Cheap ones are at greater risk of something going wrong and damaging eggs than higher quality options. It is still a small chance, but it's a greater chance than with an option that is better designed and constructed.

If it really matters, then spend the money and get a high-quality option with precision controls, better insulation from outside changes and recording devices to track useful data.

If it doesn't matter then go with a styrofoam cooler, a piece of flexwatt and a thermostat. You might lose some eggs but it's usually good enough to hatch out most species, most of the time.

The decision really comes down to either a practical expense versus reward comparison where the added cost of a better incubator is compared to the dollar value of the eggs being incubated; or that entire concept is tossed and a person just does what they can because it's their hobby and they want to take or eliminate risks as a personal decision.

You can't do too much with a hovabator though. You could stick a Helix system on it for more accurate control of the temperature and keep it in a larger insulated area to reduce the influence of external conditions but at that point you may as well have just spent the money on an incubator that was better quality to begin with.

 

[maggiee22195]

Have you actually measured the temperature in the Hovabator for a few days with a thermometer that can record data over time?

Or double checked it with multiple thermometers to test the accuracy and calibration of the internal thermostat?

Temperature changes can have varying degrees of impact on egg development not only as a result of the total change, but as a result of the rate and duration of the changes- faster changes and longer periods outside the ideal are more likely to have more of an impact.

Hovabators are the cheap incubation option. They do not provide precision environmental controls or top of the line measurement tools. They give you a reasonable chance for success most the time, provided nothing happens that would kick in the fail safe and backup features of more elaborate and higher quality systems. They're not accurate to one one hundreth of a degree, they have no secondary systems that kick in to save the eggs in cases of mechanical failure, they're sort of decently insulated but not to a point where they're immune to external changes.

You can make some changes, use multiple thermometers and thermostats, make sure the unit is placed in a room/spot that is not going to experience lots of temperature changes... but after a point, you may as well just dump the cheap model and buy a better incubator to begin with, since do-it-yourself redundancies are going to cost about the same amount.

I will definitely do the pre measuring of the temps but I will do it for more than 24 hours. Thank you for your response. I am glad that you answered with the amount of detail that you did, it has really helped me. I am going to try to make sure that the eggs will survive. And thank you again for your helpful answer.

 

[M_surinamensis]

I will definitely do the pre measuring of the temps but I will do it for more than 24 hours. Thank you for your response. I am glad that you answered with the amount of detail that you did, it has really helped me. I am going to try to make sure that the eggs will survive. And thank you again for your helpful answer.

Some steps you can take then- for peace of mind of nothing else...

Put the incubator in a place which is away from drafts and well insulated inside the house. The temperature of the location matters less than the stability of the temperature at that location. Away from windows (which can be cold or hot), away from hallways and doors where drafts can creep in and so on. Internal walls or internal rooms are ideal.

If you have a thermostat and thermometers, use a thermostat and thermometers. You can double check the accuracy of thermometers against one another simply by using a few of them. Keep your own notes and double check your measuring devices frequently.

Avoid opening the incubator whenever possible. Even a hovabator is insulated but that insulation becomes meaningless if there's someone opening it up every hour or two and introducing unheated air,* forcing the heating elements to kick back on again.

Definitely measure the accuracy and dependability of the incubator before putting any eggs in it. Run it for a week and check the temperatures every three-four hours around the clock to see what kind of shifts are likely. Use multiple thermometers to verify the precision of the thermostat (probably accurate to two-three degrees at best).

Be aware of the way that the insulation is not absolute and how the external conditions can change the internal conditions. If you get a cold snap or heat wave, if you decide to turn on or off the heating or air conditioning in the house and so on. If the environment the incubator is sitting in changes, check to ensure that the thermostat and heating element of the incubator are adjusting accordingly.

And... if it really comes down to it and you want to absolutely minimize those risk factors or are breeding something that justifies the cost... consider a better incubator. There really is a direct correlation between quality and cost and for anyone who is getting serious enough about their breeding efforts where the small chance for mishaps is an issue, the difference in price is well worth the investment.

*the difference in air pressure based on temperature and humidity inside versus outside of the incubator mean that there's an immediate and large transfer of air every time it is opened

 

[maggiee22195]

Some steps you can take then- for peace of mind of nothing else...

Put the incubator in a place which is away from drafts and well insulated inside the house. The temperature of the location matters less than the stability of the temperature at that location. Away from windows (which can be cold or hot), away from hallways and doors where drafts can creep in and so on. Internal walls or internal rooms are ideal.

If you have a thermostat and thermometers, use a thermostat and thermometers. You can double check the accuracy of thermometers against one another simply by using a few of them. Keep your own notes and double check your measuring devices frequently.

Avoid opening the incubator whenever possible. Even a hovabator is insulated but that insulation becomes meaningless if there's someone opening it up every hour or two and introducing unheated air,* forcing the heating elements to kick back on again.

Definitely measure the accuracy and dependability of the incubator before putting any eggs in it. Run it for a week and check the temperatures every three-four hours around the clock to see what kind of shifts are likely. Use multiple thermometers to verify the precision of the thermostat (probably accurate to two-three degrees at best).

Be aware of the way that the insulation is not absolute and how the external conditions can change the internal conditions. If you get a cold snap or heat wave, if you decide to turn on or off the heating or air conditioning in the house and so on. If the environment the incubator is sitting in changes, check to ensure that the thermostat and heating element of the incubator are adjusting accordingly.

And... if it really comes down to it and you want to absolutely minimize those risk factors or are breeding something that justifies the cost... consider a better incubator. There really is a direct correlation between quality and cost and for anyone who is getting serious enough about their breeding efforts where the small chance for mishaps is an issue, the difference in price is well worth the investment.

*the difference in air pressure based on temperature and humidity inside versus outside of the incubator mean that there's an immediate and large transfer of air every time it is opened

I am going to set the incubator up when it comes closer to breeding season. This helped even more. I am serious about my animals health, but I simply can't afford to spend $100-$300 on an incubator right now. I got this incubator because this will be my first breeding season and I am just going to try to make due with what I have at the moment. I am not diregarding anything you have said at all, I am simply just going to improve the quality (if possible) of the machine that I have at the moment. I hope to have healthy eggs and babies when breeding season rolls around. Oh, I have another question... If I keep a full water bottle or two in the incubator, will that have any influence on the temperature? I thought I read in one of these egg incubation threads that having a water bottle or two in the incubator helps. Thanks again!

Maggie

 

[M_surinamensis]

If I keep a full water bottle or two in the incubator, will that have any influence on the temperature?

You get two answers.

Technically, yes.

In a practical, measurable, matters to you with what you are doing and how you are measuring it kind of way, no.

A lot of people don't really understand heat and temperature. It is a measurement of energy and generally we concern ourselves with disparities in that energy or the flow of that energy from one thing to another. Technically, having anything in the environment will change the way that energy moves and dissipates and what kind of exacting external controls are required to keep it steady... but once the material inside has all heated up, the practical difference in energy used, time the heating element is on or one thousandths of a degree difference in temperature don't really matter much for what you're actually trying to accomplish. The differences are so small that they won't be measured by any tools you'll be using to monitor it.

Consider an oven, set to 400 degrees. Everything in the oven is 400 degrees, the sides of the oven, the metal rack and the air inside that space. You can stick your hand in the oven without being burned because air is a very poor conductor of heat and it would take time for enough energy to be transfered from the air into your skin to burn you. If you touch the metal rack though, you'll be burned almost instantly- because metal is a very good conductor of heat and the energy moves easily from the rack into your skin.

Humid air is a slightly better conductor than dry air is, so open water bottles would transfer heat better and change the temperature and amount of energy moving around from the heating element. The difference is so slight that it doesn't really matter though, it's the kind of measurement that requires extremely specialized, very precise equipment to detect. Closed water bottles would change the temperature and heat as well, because water is better at absorbing and storing heat than air is- but again, the difference is too small to make any practical difference when incubating gecko eggs.

 

[maggiee22195]

You get two answers.

Technically, yes.

In a practical, measurable, matters to you with what you are doing and how you are measuring it kind of way, no.

A lot of people don't really understand heat and temperature. It is a measurement of energy and generally we concern ourselves with disparities in that energy or the flow of that energy from one thing to another. Technically, having anything in the environment will change the way that energy moves and dissipates and what kind of exacting external controls are required to keep it steady... but once the material inside has all heated up, the practical difference in energy used, time the heating element is on or one thousandths of a degree difference in temperature don't really matter much for what you're actually trying to accomplish. The differences are so small that they won't be measured by any tools you'll be using to monitor it.

Consider an oven, set to 400 degrees. Everything in the oven is 400 degrees, the sides of the oven, the metal rack and the air inside that space. You can stick your hand in the oven without being burned because air is a very poor conductor of heat and it would take time for enough energy to be transfered from the air into your skin to burn you. If you touch the metal rack though, you'll be burned almost instantly- because metal is a very good conductor of heat and the energy moves easily from the rack into your skin.

Humid air is a slightly better conductor than dry air is, so open water bottles would transfer heat better and change the temperature and amount of energy moving around from the heating element. The difference is so slight that it doesn't really matter though, it's the kind of measurement that requires extremely specialized, very precise equipment to detect. Closed water bottles would change the temperature and heat as well, because water is better at absorbing and storing heat than air is- but again, the difference is too small to make any practical difference when incubating gecko eggs.

Ok, Thanks. I guess I won't put water bottles in there. Thanks again.