Does anyone use punnet squares with leos?

[bubblez825]

Anyone? I learned about them in science class and was wondering if anyone actually used them in the breeding of leos or other species of animals/mammals. If you don't know what they are, look them up lol idk how to set one up with the computer sorry.

~Emily

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

that's how the percentages are determined when people post the % of outcome when people ask. there is a site called the genetics wizard that does it for you.

 

[Next Level Geckos]

i learned it in science, but i never payed attencion cuz i never knew it would come in handy. i wish i payed attention better. i know who the square works and all but i still need to remember vocab.

 

[Lady_Kiya]

I have no idea how to determine which one is what. Lol

 

[paulh]

I use the Punnett square, FOIL, or branching system (whichever I feel like at the time) for one locus problems. They all give the same result and take about the same time. I have used Punnett squares for two and three locus problems, but I prefer the branching system. A branching system gives the same result in half the time because it is unnecessary to add all the like boxes.

 

[fallen_angel]

I have used punnett squares several times :main_yes:

 

[jakemyster44]

In Ron Trempers book he uses them... I have never though.

 

[bubblez825]

I use the Punnett square, FOIL, or branching system (whichever I feel like at the time) for one locus problems. They all give the same result and take about the same time. I have used Punnett squares for two and three locus problems, but I prefer the branching system. A branching system gives the same result in half the time because it is unnecessary to add all the like boxes.

I'm interested in what FOIL and the branching system is...how are they set up?

 

[thekooliest]

I learned about them in science, but of course haven't used them with Leopard Geckos cause I don't breed
But, I was wondering...are you planning to breed?

 

[paulh]

I'm interested in what FOIL and the branching system is...how are they set up?

FOIL is initial slang for First, Outer, Inner, Last. Start with the genotypes M1//M2 X F1//F2 where
M1 = male's first gene
M2 = male's second gene
F1 = male's first gene
F2 = female's second gene

// = a pair of chromosomes.

M1//M2 = a pair of chromosomes with the M1 gene in one chromosome and the M2 gene in the same location in the other chromosome.

First = First gene in male and first gene in female = M1//F1
Outer = First gene in male and last gene in female = M1//F2
Inner = Last gene in male and first gene in female = M2//F1
Last = Last gene in male and last gene in female = M2//F2

If you make a Punnett square with F1 and F2 on the top and M1 and M2 down the side, you get

M1//F1 M1//F2
M2//F1 M2//F2

These forums don't do branching systems properly, but here is an approximation:
Branching system with M1//M2 X F1//F2
M1 < (place F1 on one branch of the < and F2 on the other)

M2 < (place F1 on one branch of the < and F2 on the other)

Result:
M1//F1
M1//F2
M2//F1
M2//F2

+ is the internationally recognized symbol for the wild type or normal gene for each locus.
Branching system for +//a +//b X +//a +//b

+//a X +//a -->
1/4 +//+
2/4 +//a
1/4 a//a

+//b X +//b -->
1/4 +//+
2/4 +//b
1/4 b//b

1/4 +//+ <- (place 1/4 +//+ on the first branch of the <-, 2/4 +//b on the second branch, and 1/4 b//b on the third)

2/4 +//a <- (place 1/4 +//+ on the first branch of the <-, 2/4 +//b on the second branch, and 1/4 b//b on the third)

1/4 a//a <-(place 1/4 +//+ on the first branch of the <-, 2/4 +//b on the second branch, and 1/4 b//b on the third)

Multiply the fractions as you go out the branches to get the result for each branch.

Result:
1/16 +//+
2/16 +//+ +//b
1/16 +//+ b//b
2/16 +//a +//+
4/16 +//a +//b
2/16 +//a b//b
1/16 a//a +//+
2/16 a//a +//b
1/16 a//a b//b

Branching systems work better with paper and pencil than with computer text editors.

A pre-electronic automobile odometer with rotors is an example of a branching system. It gives every combination of numbers between 00000.0 and 99999.9.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

When I was in High School, there were no genetics! LOL!

 

[Crazygecko]

Who would ever of thought that something they teach in school would of been useful later in life. I know I sure didnt think so. ahaha

 

[GeckoFreak77]

I learned how to use them 3 weeks ago,and i already forget lol

 

[fallen_angel]

I understood FOIL in math (I guess that's algebra?) but that just makes my head hurt LOL. Maybe it's because I just woke up

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Haha. O`cmon Marcia, you`re not that old.:main_thumbsup:

I have never used punnett squares, it seems like useless information to me. I know what possible pecentages(of being het/homo for recessive traits) I`ll get, just from the breeding that I am doing. Other than that, it can only give you a general idea of what you can hatch. If someone didn`t know breeding Double Hets together(Blizzard X Tremper as an example), can give you Blizzards, Trempers, AND a combination of the two, w/ multiple various possibilities for hets, then they may actually find them useful. It is a good way to learn! But...

It only shows percentages of probability. While you may come close to those numbers sometimes, other times you will not. It is because, we are not looking at a large enough sample of results.

The reason is, Leos lay typically 20 eggs or less per season. If they laid more like 100 eggs each season, we would see something more close to those numbers. However, you are not going to be able to know possible het`s genetics, without breeding them. So half of those numbers are pretty much meaningless, when you look at it that way. I guess that is my main reason for never using them.:main_robin:

 

[lillith]

paulh,

Thanks for the quick lesson! I'm copying and pasting that to my home computer. Hope you don't mind.

 

[paulh]

paulh,

Thanks for the quick lesson! I'm copying and pasting that to my home computer. Hope you don't mind.

Lillith,

Anything I post on a web forum is freely distributable. Use it and pass it on to others.

If you like, you can download a generic genetics calculator names GeneCalc from my web page (http://pholland.public.iastate.edu). It's in beta test stage. It's intended to work with leopard geckos, fruit flies, corn, etc. It is writen in the Python computer language for portability, but you'd need a Python interpreter to run it. Some Linux distributions come with a Python interpreter, and as far as I know, Mac OS 10.2 and later does, too. Windows does not, but several versions of Python interpreters are available for free download at http://www.python.org

GeneCalc works for me on Python 2.5.2 in Ubuntu Linux 8.4 and Python 2.6.1 on Windows XP, SP3. I haven't tried it on a Mac, yet.

GeneCalc is freely distributable under the terms of the GNU General Public License and comes with NO WARRENTY.

 

[lillith]

thank you!!!