Feeding a gecko with enigma syndrome

[Akari_32]

What do you all do for your "special" geckos? I seem to have a hard time keeping Amelia on food. She's afraid of superworms (the thrashing when she clamps on really scares her), as well as them being too fast for her to be able to register and take aim, she can't grab onto mealworms because they're too small, and their movement isn't exaggerated enough for to noticed them most of the time anyways, crickets are too fast and she gets discouraged easily, even if i take all their legs off... She's been eating on Phoenix worms really well for a couple months (slow, exaggerated movements, and nice and fat for grabbing on to makes them very favorable to her), and absolutely loves wax worms.

Lately (the last week-ish), she hasn't been showing much interest in the Phoenix worms, and will ONLY eat the wax worms since I ran out of all other feeders, and had to split 10 or so mealies, a couple Phoenix worms (which were too small for her and she couldn't see) and 5 or 6 waxworms between my two adult geckos and my growing baby. The only thing I really had for Amelia, since the phoenix worms were too small we're three huge, fat waxworms. Since then, she's been really bad. I know her problem is a mix of being a spoiled brat and eating her waxworms, as well as being bored with her food.

So here's what I need:

-something that will not fight back in any way
-something big and blubbery
-something slow moving
-something that can be fed on a regular basis or as a staple
-somthing affordable!! (less than $3 for a decent amount, preferably)

As well as any tips on getting her to eat again. We go through this every few months, but what gets her eating always changes. It'd be nice to have a few tricks up my sleeves.

I do know that waxworms aren't a staple. She gets one or two a couple times a week to keep her weight up. She's a tad underweight, but it stays consistant, and I can't get her to eat more than she wants to. She's otherwise healthy, so it doesn't bother me too much.

 

[indyana]

When my rescue gecko was too weak to chase or hold onto struggling food, I took a kitchen mallet and smacked the insects to squish and kill them. I then used a pair of long feeder tongs to wiggle and drag them around to catch his interest. I realize this is a bit involved, but I would consider it the best way to feed a variety of things that the gecko might not be able to handle on its own. Maybe this would work for your Enigma girl, once she got used to the feeding tongs?

And yes, wax worms can make a gecko a brat for a while. I never use them anymore because they are way too tempting and way to low in nutritional value.

 

[Phantom240]

Try grabbing the crickets by their back legs with the tongs. More often than not, it'll damage or tear their back legs off, making it much easier for your gecko to catch. I had to do this a few times yesterday because my girl gets frustrated so easily lol.

Also, as for slow and affordable, try Dubia roaches or butterworms. I've heard that soft bodied worms shouldn't be used as a staple though.

 

[Akari_32]

Whatever I feed her *has* to move on its own. She knows when I'm moving it with the tweezers, or if its moving by itself. She won't eat it at all if I'm the only source of movement. I use the tweezers to sort of poke the work and make thrash so that it gets her attention, but then I basically have to just keep it wiggling in the same spot so she can take aim at it. So, she doesn't mind tweezers, but they have to be used the right way, or she won't eat whatever it is I'm trying to feed her. It can't be held in the tweezers. I've tried getting her out of that, but it just doesn't happen. The only time I've ever gotten her to eat from tweezers is when she went off food for months, only eating a bite or so ever week or two, and tried it with a cricket. Thats it. She's stubborn...

I have taken the legs of crickets before (tried all legs, no legs, and just the front legs), and she did ok on them for a while, but then I got a particularly bold batch that liked to check out her face with their little feelers (anything touching her face really freaks her out), and that was that. She wouldn't do it after that. I've tried going back to assorted worm, and then back to crickets again, but she wont touch them. I've tried dead crickets (smooshing the head) and tweezer feeding, and that doesn't work, either. I've also tried head-smooshed super worms, partially head-smooshed super worms (so they are still sort of twitching), and she won't go for those either. She's very easily traumatized, as far as what her feeders do to face goes. Its weird. Though if I was mostly blind, and mentally out there, I guess I'd probably be about the same.

As far as why I still her waxworms, she doesn't eat enough of other foods to keep weight on (she either gets distracted or theres too much effort involved and gets discouraged/bored), so a waxworm here and there does the trick at at least keeping her weight stable.

Butter worms I think I can get, roaches I'm not sure. I buy most of my feeders from White Hot Dragons, who is, as the name implies, mainly a bearded dragon store. I can ask about them, though. Maybe they can order me some.

Does anyone know anything about horn worms? They come in sizes that should could eat, provided she will actually eat them, and not turn her nose up at them. They grow really quickly, I think?

 

[Phantom240]

Mine hates when feeders touch her face. It's kinda funny when she's stalking a cricket, then it turns around and touches her nose, and it totally breaks her concentration and she walks off. It's like she's mad she got caught. lol.

Hornworm eggs can't be refrigerated, so if you buy eggs to hatch, you'll have quite a batch of worms to deal with. From what I understand, they're highly nutritious. It's funny that everyone here chastises people for feeding waxies to a leo... mine doesn't have even a bit of interest in them. The only one I got her to eat was held with feeding tongs. Butter worms are often used as fishing bait, so chances are a local shop would have them, and I've even heard of Wal-Mart having them in their bait fridge. Dubia roaches are plentiful on the internet. A friend of mine turned me onto West Coast Roaches, out of SC, and the guy that runs the place has great prices. He also auctions off random feeders nearly every day. I'm waiting for him to auction of a package of 50 medium Dubia to see if my girl will eat them. He also carries butter worms, horn worms and meal worms.

 

[Phantom240]

Also, have you thought about Phoenix Worms/Repti Worms/Calci Worms/Soldier Fly larva? They supposedly wiggle like there's no tomorrow, highly nutritious, and don't die off quickly.

 

[Akari_32]

She has a heart attack when something touches her face. To her, its not a mild inconvenience, its like a life or death situation. I don't know why, but its something that can't happen, or she'll not eat for days. Its weird.

I can buy like 15 small (1.5-2 inch) horn worms, or 30 or so mini (1/2-1 inch) ones. That sucks they can't be kept in the fridge... Just how fast do they grow? I can also buy butter's from WHD's.

What do you all do for your "special" geckos? I seem to have a hard time keeping Amelia on food. She's afraid of superworms (the thrashing when she clamps on really scares her), as well as them being too fast for her to be able to register and take aim, she can't grab onto mealworms because they're too small, and their movement isn't exaggerated enough for to noticed them most of the time anyways, crickets are too fast and she gets discouraged easily, even if i take all their legs off... She's been eating on Phoenix worms really well for a couple months (slow, exaggerated movements, and nice and fat for grabbing on to makes them very favorable to her), and absolutely loves wax worms.
...

:main_thumbsup:

I buy them by the 100 count cup. She doesn't eat them all before they start to die. The fridge it too cold, apparently, so I keep them at room temp. So, instead of paying $6 of 100, I pay $6 for like 20-50.... But its all she'll eat at the moment, or was, anyways.

 

[Phantom240]

I hear they grow stupid fast, like silkworms. However, I've read you can slow their metabolism by keeping them around 55 degrees. The most popular method for doing this seems to be with a small cooler or ice chest of some sort, and using ice packs near (but not touching) the worm cup.

 

[Akari_32]

I never thought of a cooler. I might try that with the phoenix worms first to see how it works, since the horn worms are pretty pricey.

 

[Phantom240]

They're indeed pricey... but they get huge lol.

 

[Akari_32]

How big do they get, exactly? Can a gecko even a full grown one?

 

[Phantom240]

Supposedly up to four inches. I wouldn't think a gecko could handle a full grown hornworm.

 

[Akari_32]

Oh geez that's big! The biggest I've seen them is about 3, and as big around as a dime.

 

[Akari_32]

Amelia ate really well on meal worms last night. I picked out the larger ones, and she did her best to strike at the smaller ones (had to help her out with those ones). She can't help she has no aim She typically doesn't even bother with meal worms because they're too small for her to grab, but I figured I'd try. Must have been super hungry, 'cause I gave her three "helpings" of them (all in all, about 20-30 inch plus worms). She also ate a couple Phoenix worms, but wasn't too thrilled about them LOL Tuesday I'll check and see what kind of feeders I can find at WHD, and report back with the list (tried to look online, but its been "under construction" for three years now :main_rolleyes.

 

[indyana]

Good that she's eating! She might just be bored with phoenix worms at the moment.

Have you ever tried mealworm pupae or beetles? You can only get those if you leave your mealworms out of the fridge, but my gecko absolutely loves the pupa stage. He'll grab one of those any time. The beetles you can feed when they're white/beige, but I've heard a lot of geckos don't like them once they're hardened up.

 

[NikkiC223]

Good that she's eating! She might just be bored with phoenix worms at the moment.

Have you ever tried mealworm pupae or beetles? You can only get those if you leave your mealworms out of the fridge, but my gecko absolutely loves the pupa stage. He'll grab one of those any time. The beetles you can feed when they're white/beige, but I've heard a lot of geckos don't like them once they're hardened up.

They can eat them when they are at the pupa stage? They always look so weird at that stage!

 

[Akari_32]

She didn't eat last night. May have been full from the night before, though. But she was out and cruising around, and stalking me-- which is a good sign that she wants to eat, and she wants to eat *now*. She didn't want anything I have her, no meal worms, no Phoenix worms. Didn't offer her waxworms, though.

I do occationally offer the pupae. They don't usually last that long to turn, but since Orchid is all chuncky and on self imposed food strike and Raven is still terrified of me (just got her a week ago today), the meal worms are lasting longer than usual. I've have two so far, and Amelia's eaten both. Some times she likes them, sometimes she doesn't. I think the fresher and meatier they are, the better, maybe? I've offered her the beetles before, and it's not been something she's showed any interest in, but I could pull a few worms and let them do their thing in a seperate cup and see what happens, since she apparently eating things she usually won't eat rich now.

They look weird lol Like little aliens or Metapods LOL

 

[indyana]

Yep! The only bad thing about pupae is that they only wiggle a little when poked, so your gecko has to be good about hand feeding... or it could just be like mine and eat anything you stick in front of it.

Frank Indiviglio writes these great articles about reptile husbandry and feeding; he really inspired me to branch out and explore new feeding options for my gecko. He does some things I wouldn't (like collect wild insects), but I do think he's right about offering variety. I'll link a few articles here, but just searching/browsing through the blog archives will reveal some very useful stuff. Be sure to also read the comments on the articles, as he gives a lot of in-depth answers to reader questions. Sometimes these are more useful than the articles themselves.

Providing a Balanced Diet

Feeding Leopard Geckos - Beyond the ?Cricket and Mealworm? Diet - Part 1
Feeding Leopard Geckos - Beyond the Cricket and Mealworm Diet - Part 2

Canned Insects and other Invertebrates - An Important New Food for Pet Reptiles and Amphibians | That Reptile Blog

 

[Akari_32]

Yep. I have to hold them in just the right way so that they stick out from the tweezers and she can strike at them, and so that they wiggle like crazy. Once they're too hard, nobody will eat them.

Staple foods are limited here, even with White Hot Dragons up by my school. For staples I can get crickets, mealies, supers, and Phoenix worms. For treats i can get waxworms, butter worms, the occational silk worm, earth worms, pinkies, and the list goes on. Geckos are popular here, but bearded dragons, snakes and iguanas take the lead, and really takes over the feeder market :/

I'll check those out. There may be more available than i think. I like to try and apply my Uro's logic on my girls some times. Rex just likes his little group of foods, so feeding him is easy. Anything new, or not worth trying, is kicked all over the tank, covered in sand, and left for me to clean up :main_rolleyes:

 

[DrCarrotTail]

It's starting to get close to wintertime and the days are getting shorter. Are you sure she's just not going off food because of the seasonal change? I only feed my adult leos every 4 days or so. I like to see them attack food when I offer it and I also don't like to see them super chunky (although some of them still are!). I would suggest trying to feed her every 3-4 days instead of every night or two and I bet you get a better feeding response. Do you have a picture of her? Folks could help you gain an understanding of whether she's under weight or not which would give you a better idea if my advice of increasing time in between feedings is a good idea or not. Of course, if she's skinny or can't keep weight on this may not be a great idea.

Just to give you an idea - I've had my 100g male on a "diet" for months now (he really should be more like 85g). He gets 10-20 mealworms a week and hasn't lost any weight yet. These guys really are super efficient and don't really need many calories to make ends meet.