Gut Loading crickets - interesting new study

[OSUgecko]

I've been at an international Animal Science research symposium in San Antonio all week. I learned a LOT of new things, one of which I thought I'd share with everyone here... hope you find it as interesting as I did!

At the symposium, Dr. Cheryl Dikeman, an Animal Nutritionist that works for the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha, Nebraska, presented some research that she just completed about the nutritional value of feeder crickets. She gutloaded three different sizes of crickets (pinheads, medium, and mature) with different substances for different lengths of time (24, 48, 72 hours), then froze the treatment groups. Finally, she used a bomb calorimeter to measure the nutritional content of the frozen crickets.

Summary of information:

1. Lettuce is just as effective as commercial gel gut-loading formulas at adding nutritional value to crickets.

2. Pinheads are the most nutritious of all cricket sizes.

3. Crickets have the highest nutritional value after 24 hours of gut-loading. From then on, they actually begin to decrease in nutritional value. This really surprised me because I assumed gut-loading would have a cumulative effect, but apparantly this is not so. Dr. Dikeman is still not sure why this happens, but they were able to repeat their experimental results multiple times, so the data appears to be legit.

Even more interesting: after gut-loading another treatment group of crickets for 24 hours, fasting them for 24 hours, then gut-loading them again for 24 hours before freezing... the nutritional content of the crickets rose to the maximum levels again. WEIRD...

If Dr. Dikeman's research is accurate, in order to get the maximum nutritional benefit out of feeder crickets, you should feed/fast/feed them on a 24-hour rotational cycle, and feed the crickets to your herps every other day.

That made me really curious as to whether I should be managing my mealworms differently (right now they have access to gut-load ad lib). I wonder if all insects function the same way? Dr. Dikeman has only studied crickets so far, but maybe she'll do some work on mealies and other bugs soon. She is also researching nutritional requirements of several critically endangered herp species. All in all, it was extremely interesting to listen to her! :main_yes:

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Id want to know what kind of lettuce is better than gutlaod since lettuce itself has little nutritional value:

(http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/veggies/lettuce1.html#9)
Nutrition Facts (One cup raw leaf lettuce, chopped)

Calories 9
Dietary Fiber 1.3
Protein 1 gram
Carbohydrates 1.34 grams
Vitamin A 1456 IU
Vitamin C 13.44
Calcium 20.16
Iron 0.62
Potassium 162.4 mg



The rest is no big suprise, anything starved for 24 hours will eat more and retain it for a short period of time. Also its a long known fact that smaller crix hold more value, as they are the legs and wings take up space that has little nutritional value. The only value of the crix is in the gut.



Gutload
Example: (http://www.progeckos.com/~progecko/osCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=48)


Dry / Wet
Crude Protein 20.90% 19.38%
Crude Fat 5.16% 4.78%
Fiber 14.20% 13.16%
HFE (Carbohydrates) 50.22% 46.56%
Total Carbohydrates 64.42% 59.72%
Moisture 0.00% 7.30%
TDN 85.91% 79.64%
Ash 9.53% 8.83%
Calcium 1.70% 1.58%
Phosphorus 0.70% 0.65%
Potassium 0.82% 0.76%
Magnesium 0.26% 0.24%
Sodium 0.17% 0.16%
Sulfur 0.20% 0.19%
Nitrogen 3.34% 3.10%
Iron 440 PPM 408 PPM
Aluminum 232 PPM 215 PPM
Manganese 105 PPM 97 PPM
Copper 13 PPM 12 PPM
Zinc 107 PPM 99 PPM

​

 

[gko reptiles]

Some of the greatest info about feeders I have seen so far. Awesome Post.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Oh and on #3 they lose value as they poop it out, food in, value in, food out, value out.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

With a little research Ive found information that Dr. Cheryl Dikeman's experience is with Exotic Ruminants which on the exotics list are (http://www.datcp.state.wi.us/ah/agriculture/animals/movement/wild_animals.jsp)

Not repiltes.

I did email Iowa State University where she does testing on students on Exotic Ruminants and their feeding habits to see if this was in fact to be taken as a reptile feeding guidline for gutload.

 

[Airilith]

Alicia thanks so much for the info! I'm a science geek, so I love hearing about all the research being done. It does make you wonder if perhaps you should keep your feeders differently, huh?

Great post! Thanks again!

 

[OSUgecko]

Wendy, first of all I'm just reporting what Dr. Dikeman presented. She has not published her work on reptiles and amphibians because she is doing additional studies on the same topic beforehand. This information is not supposed to be a feeding guideline... yet. I specifically stated several times in my post IF this study is accurate, etc. I just thought that the information was "food for thought", lol, which is why I posted it.

Secondly, nutritional requirements and foods may change dramatically between animal species, but their core biochemistry remains constant. That's why zoo veterinarians are able to treat mammals, fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians, etc. The building blocks are the same. I don't think it's fair to imply that Dr. Dikeman doesn't know what she's doing just because her primary research is with exotic ruminants. She has been working with reptiles for a couple of years and personally owns at least two leopard geckos (both of which are very healthy judging from the pictures she showed!).

I don't know what type of lettuce she used, although there were pictures of a leafy green head of lettuce on her slide show. I already knew that lettuce has a low nutritional content, but I think that the value of this portion of the study is in showing that the commercial gel product tested (I want to say it was Flukers, but I'm not sure) didn't produce any better results than the lettuce. That doesn't say much for the commercial product, and it certainly implies that our money would be better spent on something else.

Yes, the crickets would be processing the diet over time, but it also makes sense to assume that the better nutrition they were receiving would overall improve their own body condition and nutrient value. However, the crickets dramatically decreased in nutritional value as time passed. Farm animals raised on a higher quality diet will invariably produce more meat (and therefore more nutrients) than those raised on a low quality diet. Why don't crickets show the same effects? This is what I thought was interesting, in addition the the fact that fasting/re-gut-loading for 24 hours completely reverses the downward trend.

Finally... correction on my post! If you followed Dr. Dikeman's cricket schedule, you would feed your herps every THIRD day, not every other day. That's what I get for typing at 2 a.m.... :main_rolleyes:

Thanks everyone for the great responses!

 

[OSUgecko]

One more thing... Dr. Dikeman does NOT gut-load the actual feeder crickets at the zoo with lettuce. She uses a different commercial dry gut-load from Mazura that has a high nutritional value, and provides a wet sponge as a water source. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Great information, Alicia! Thanks for sharing...

That made me really curious as to whether I should be managing my mealworms differently (right now they have access to gut-load ad lib).

I spoke to Dr. Daniel Wentz from Rep-Cal at length a few years ago, and he told me it is virtually impossible to gut-load a mealworm. It will be interesting to see what Dr. Dikeman finds in her study!

 

[Grinning Geckos]

Great information, Alicia! Thanks for sharing...
I spoke to Dr. Daniel Wentz from Rep-Cal at length a few years ago, and he told me it is virtually impossible to gut-load a mealworm. It will be interesting to see what Dr. Dikeman finds in her study!

I would be interested to find out as well. I think there can be a big difference in mealworms when gutloaded for a period of time (a few days). I'll take pics, but I'm sure some of you will know what I mean. You can find "starved" mealies that are flat on the bottom, and "full" mealies that are so plump they look like they're about to burst out of their skin.

 

[nwheat]

Thanks for the great info, Alicia! Sounds like a very interesting symposium!

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Secondly, nutritional requirements and foods may change dramatically between animal species, but their core biochemistry remains constant. That's why zoo veterinarians are able to treat mammals, fish, birds, reptiles, amphibians, etc. The building blocks are the same. I don't think it's fair to imply that Dr. Dikeman doesn't know what she's doing just because her primary research is with exotic ruminants. She has been working with reptiles for a couple of years and personally owns at least two leopard geckos (both of which are very healthy judging from the pictures she showed!).

Not exactly true, the core biochemistry is not the same for dogs and cats as it is for reptiles or other exotics, that is why it is so hard to find a good reptile vet or even a bird vet, the basics are not the same.

Zoo vets are not just ordinary vets working at a zoo, they are much wider ranged, Id love to have a zoo vet look at my reptiles instead of a normal everyday vet or even a claimed reptile specialist.

And knowing she has worked with reptiles for a couple of years and has 2 leos, that changes my entire opinion, she is an expert on reptiles.

I don't know what type of lettuce she used, although there were pictures of a leafy green head of lettuce on her slide show. I already knew that lettuce has a low nutritional content, but I think that the value of this portion of the study is in showing that the commercial gel product tested (I want to say it was Flukers, but I'm not sure) didn't produce any better results than the lettuce. That doesn't say much for the commercial product, and it certainly implies that our money would be better spent on something else.

2 of the flukers gel products are a water source only, not a gutload at all. The 3rd is claimed to be a total diet that we have all known is crap for years so the Flukers products VS Lettuce, I bet the lettuce did win against a water source and probably against the Orange Diet as well. None of those are true gutloads, that is why we spend money on gutload instead of gel water sources.

 

[PaulSage]

Interesting information -- Thanks, Alicia.

I've never thought much of those "gels" regardless if they're just a water source or a "diet." First, they're expensive as heck; and Second, ...aren't they made from the same compound that is used in baby diapers to absorb liquid?

My other question is, what if a gecko consumes a commercial dry gutload directly? I know that my geckos sometimes end up eating gut load that is stuck to mealworms.

 

[Airilith]

My other question is, what if a gecko consumes a commercial dry gutload directly? I know that my geckos sometimes end up eating gut load that is stuck to mealworms.

That's a good question.

Could you imagine how better understood reptiles would be if long time owners were asked for input on research topics?

 

[OSUgecko]

that is why it is so hard to find a good reptile vet or even a bird vet, the basics are not the same.

Actually, in my opinion the big difference there is experience, not basic biochemistry. Zoo vets are just regular vets with zoo experience that are at the top of their field. By the time they graduated vet school they had already learned all of the basics that they needed to know. Then they had to learn how to apply their knowledge and build upon it, which is where the experience comes in. They aren't necessarily experts in all areas, even after working at a zoo for many years. In fact, every zoo vet that I have met has told me that they spend an inordinate time on the phone talking to other zoo vets trying to figure out what is going on with particular cases!

Apparantly not everyone "knows" that the gel/complete diet is crap because a lot of people feed this gutload. No one had ever done a nutritional study on it before, so regardless of anecdotal evidence, it was worth an investigation.

Paul, I don't know if the geckos could actually utilize the nutrients in the gut-load. Given that the whole point of gut-loading crickets is to get the crickets to process the nutrients into a form that the gecko can digest, and the gut-load is probably plant-based, it would most likely just pass through the digestive tract.

I wish there was a lot more research being done on reptiles - it would help us all out! There's just not much funding available or enough people interested in it, apparantly. Maybe some of us can change that!

 

[Tanga]

Great information, Alicia! Thanks for sharing...
I spoke to Dr. Daniel Wentz from Rep-Cal at length a few years ago, and he told me it is virtually impossible to gut-load a mealworm. It will be interesting to see what Dr. Dikeman finds in her study!

I'm confused now, so does this mean you shouldn't even bother to gutload mealworms since it's impossible to do so???? :main_huh: