Help Please. Gecko Loss of Appetite.

[KTyne]

About your leo:
- Sex- Female
- Age & Weight- 2 years, 56 grams (down from 59 grams)
- How long have you owned your leo- 1 year and 4 months
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend)- Breeder

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo- Every couple days
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now.- No, besides the loss of appetite
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe.- Went off food for a week around a year ago
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal)- No different than normal although they are smaller and less frequent
- When was the last time he/she went- Within the past couple of days
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on- Gaia has went from eating 8 or 9 Superworms every 2-3 days to eating only around 2 per week. This started in March and she has lost 3 grams in the last few months. No bloating, no lethargy, no other symptoms besides lack of appetite. I have offered her Superworms, Mealworms, Kingworms, Hornworms, and Crickets and none of those have elicited a feeding response.

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size- 40 gallon tank, problem started when she was still in her 32qt tub
- Type (ex. glass tank)- Glass tank
- Type of substrate- Paper towel
- Hides, how many, what kind- 1 warm hide, 1 cool hide, 1 humid hide
B) Heating
- Heat source- UTH
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side)- Hot side is around 93, cool side is about 74
- Method of regulating heat source- None atm (I know, bad)
- What are you using to measure your temps- Infrared Thermometer
- Do you have any lights (describe)- No
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females)- None
- Describe health, or previous problems- None

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet- When the problems started she was on a diet of Superworms and Mealworms, she now is only eating Kingworms (giant Mealworms)
- What you're feeding (how often, how much)- I feed about 5-8 worms every 2-3 days but she only ever eats maybe 1 of them.
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect)- Left in dish in cage, have tried tong feeding but she won't take the worm even though this is how I used to feed her.
B) Supplements (describe how often)- Repashy Calcium Plus every feeding
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands)- No seperate vitamin supplement as the Repashy Calcium Plus has everything they need for a supplement
- What are you gut loading food with- Nothing (I know, I know)

 

[lisa127]

Honestly, my first thought when reading this was that 8 or 9 superworms in a sitting was very excessive. You meant superworms and not mealworms, right? If you mean superworms, that is a hell of a lot in one feeding. IMO anyway. But I guess someone else who also feeds superworms should chime in here.

 

[katie]

Gutloading is VERY important. If you don't gutload her food, she's just eating a empty shell! You need a thermostat, temps could be varying to much and your Leo could be uncomfortable.

 

[lisa127]

Wait...I missed that. You don't feed your feeders?

 

[KTyne]

Ok, I don't need criticizm I just need a reason she has lost her appetite when nothing in her enclosure or care has changed.
And she lives in a 40 gallon tank, if she is too hot over her heat pad she moves.
Also, I gutload with a home made mix that I can't remember what's in it atm. I got it from a local breeder. I don't gutload with potato or carrot or stuff like that. I buy my Bugs and they get fed the same day.
Also, 8 Superworms for an Adult Gecko isn't that much. I didn't feed her the ginormous ones that she couldn't even eat one. ..

 

[lisa127]

Ok, well the superworms I've had before have been huge! So to me that seems like a lot for a leo. That is about how many superworms my blue tongued skink would eat in a sitting. But like I said, I don't feed leo's with those so maybe someone who does feed them can add to this.

So then you are gutloading if you are feeding them a gutload mix though.

 

[Ozy]

She is probably just ovulating. Ozy didn't eat very well all through the winter and breeding season. Her tail stayed fat and she appeared alright. Once she was done ovulating (which was earlier this month) she started eating like a pig again. Just keep an eye on her weight and if she isn't losing rapidly and appears to be ok, then don't worry.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

If she only has 3 hides in a 40 gallon, I'd add a ton more. I have 4 in my 20 gallon. You could probably easily fit 6. That'll give her more options. I realise you said it started when she was in her tub; just a suggestion.

Otherwise, I don't see a reason she'd stop eating, unless maybe Ozy is right about the ovulation. If she's not dropping any significant amount of weight, I wouldn't be worried.

Gutloading is VERY important. If you don't gutload her food, she's just eating a empty shell!.

Not really. That's what supplements are for. Some people don't believe in supplements and provide everything the gecko needs via gutloading, while others just feed the feeders (gutloading and feeding are two separate things) and provide supplements. Both ways work as long as everything is covered.

~Maggot

 

[katie]

Not really. That's what supplements are for. Some people don't believe in supplements and provide everything the gecko needs via gutloading, while others just feed the feeders (gutloading and feeding are two separate things) and provide supplements. Both ways work as long as everything is covered.

Even if you dust the insects, if they aren't gutloaded, the gecko is eating nothing. Sure, it's getting supplements, but no nutrition from the insect. Do you have personal experiences with this? Because I do. I worked at a pet store for 3 years and I know what happens when you don't gutload, only supplement.

 

[lisa127]

Even if you dust the insects, if they aren't gutloaded, the gecko is eating nothing. Sure, it's getting supplements, but no nutrition from the insect. Do you have personal experiences with this? Because I do. I worked at a pet store for 3 years and I know what happens when you don't gutload, only supplement.

I agree.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Even if you dust the insects, if they aren't gutloaded, the gecko is eating nothing. Sure, it's getting supplements, but no nutrition from the insect. Do you have personal experiences with this? Because I do. I worked at a pet store for 3 years and I know what happens when you don't gutload, only supplement.

What is the difference between whether or not the gecko gets it from the supplements or the feeder? They're still ingesting the nutrients. So in what way is it different? You said it's "eating nothing," but then you said, "it's getting supplements." So, yes, it is getting something - all the nutrients in those supplements. You just said so yourself. No offense, but you thought leos were nocturnal, so forgive me if I don't take your word as gospel on the finer points of supplementation.

~Maggot

 

[katie]

What is the difference between whether or not the gecko gets it from the supplements or the feeder? They're still ingesting the nutrients. So in what way is it different? You said it's "eating nothing," but then you said, "it's getting supplements." So, yes, it is getting something - all the nutrients in those supplements. You just said so yourself. No offense, but you thought leos were nocturnal, so forgive me if I don't take your word as gospel on the finer points of supplementation.

~Maggot

Supplements aren't food! It's getting vitamins and calcium, yes, but all living things need the natural carbs, vitamins, calcium, and fats their food provides. When a feeder isn't fed, it has nothing in it. No food, water, nothing. I'm sure I'm not the only person here who thought leopard geckos were nocturnal. I read a very long thread on here and many VERY knowledgable breeders said they are nocturnal. So don't point your finger at me. And just some advice... You come across very strong in your posts. I'm not a sensitive person, I just feel it doesn't hurt to be nice.

Edit: Heres a quote from a great breeder... totally explains everything.. or so I hope:

Are you asking if Leopard Geckos are? Leopard geckos are a nocturnal species but have crepuscular feeding habits. Simply due to their natural habitat, daytime activity is unbearable to most all reptilian species. Also there are VERY few animals which are strictly nocturnal only. Just about any Nocturnal species is active at dusk and dawn. Example, Racoons are a nocturnal species...have you NEVER seen one out during the day or scavenging for food at dusk and dawn.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Supplements aren't food! It's getting vitamins and calcium, yes, but all living things need the natural carbs, vitamins, calcium, and fats their food provides.

Except gutloading doesn't have anything to do with fats or carbs (unless you're gutloading with foods high in fats and carbs, which I've never heard anyone suggest). By the way, two of the definitions of "food" are:

any nourishing substance that is eaten, drunk, or otherwise taken into the body to sustain life, provide energy, promote growth, etc.
whatever supplies nourishment to organisms: plant food.

Therefore, according to those definitions, supplements are, in fact, food.

When a feeder isn't fed, it had nothing in it. No food, water, nothing.

Again, there's a difference between "feeding" and "gutloading." They're not the same thing. Obviously you have to provide food and hydration for feeders (one of the problems with freeze-dried feeders is that they contain next to no moisture). But gutloading is packing the feeder full of vitamins and minerals 24 hours before being fed to the gecko, as opposed to just providing regular food all the time. It is done specifically to increase the amount of vitamins and minerals that the gecko is ingesting and is done 24 hours ahead of time so that the cricket can't pass it all before being fed to the gecko. Unfortunately, making sure that the feeders get all the different nutrients they need to transfer to the gecko in just the right amounts can be a bit tricky, which is where the supplements come in.

Although, even if a feeder isn't provided food, that doesn't mean it contains "nothing." It can't be "nothing" because...well, it exists. It still has everything that makes up its body - fat, calcium, carbs, protein, moisture, etc. It just doesn't have extra things like vitamin A or K or any of that - which can be provided via gutloading and/or supplements.

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who thought leopard geckos were nocturnal. I read a very long thread on here and many VERY knowledgable breeders said they are nocturnal. So don't point your finger at me. And just some advice... You come across very strong in your posts. I'm not a sensitive person, I just feel it doesn't hurt to be nice.

Edit: Heres a quote from a great breeder... totally explains everything.. or so I hope:

"Strong" and "nice" aren't antonyms. You're the one jumping on people saying the feeders need to be gutloaded and they need to use UTHs, and I'm saying there's some wiggle room. Many people do things differently, and it's not always the end of the world. Almost nothing is set in stone, so just relax and observe how other people do things.

~Maggot

 

[katie]

.....

 

[KTyne]

Any feeders I get are usually fed right away, and the pet store I get them from keeps the feeders fed 100% of the time.

As for the ovulating thing, I think that might be what it is as her food issues started right at the beginning of the breeding season when I still had my Male Leo housed beside her. :|
She is in a 40 gallon now but she has actually started eating a few more worms per week more than when she was in her tub. She has 3 hides and some plants that she hides under (completely hidden). I don't think I could fit any more in her tank to be honest as her food and water dishes are huge.
Also, she has only lost 3 grams in the past 3 or so months.

This is a photo of her set-up..