HM Vs 4 eyes

[Retribution Reptiles]

I have noticed a strage simularity to the HM and the european morph 4 eyes. Are they the same morph just 2 different names? Is it possibly from the same blood lines just line bred differently?

Just found it kind of curious.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[malik454]

what do hms and 4 eyes look like ?

 

[bro paul]

Probably from the same bloodlines and line bred differently...? Not sure, though. The "four eye" look seems to come up in a lot of jungle projects (Tremper, Bell...and others). I've also noticed it on some pure Afghanicus.

 

[whkrazyk]

ive never seen the 4 eyes, does anyone have a pic?

 

[PacHerp]

Hey Ryan... I've got some photo comparisons on this subject I think you might enjoy taking a look at... give me a few hours and I'll make a post.

 

[andrea7777]

Rebecca of dragoongecko is working with four eyed, you can find pics on her website
http://www.dragoongecko.de/Projects_english.html

also here http://www.dragoongecko.de/breeders_english.html

 

[PacHerp]

Hey Ryan... after gathering some photos... I decided that I'm going to start a thread about studying head patterns, as some of the info I gathered isn't 100% in line with your thread here...

but I do want to note... I am working very heavily with trying to 'prove out' different predictable head patterns, including R2 bold stripes, halloween masks, afghans (especially those with the 'four eyes' pattern) and other patterns.

Here are two young PURE afghans that exhibit a 'four eyes' type of pattern on their head... I'm not 100% sure how I feel about the genetic aspect of this, but I do feel it shows up regularly in a majority of the pure afghanicus.

These animals change tremendously from 15 grams - 35 grams... they are both around 20 grams here.

To answer your question about the European morph 'four eyes' being the same as Halloween Masks, I would have to say I don't think this at all... the HM's are very unique animals and are in a class of their own... i'll post some more about that in my head pattern thread.

oh, and yes... the best person to talk to about four eyes is Rebecca, I have spoken extensively with her about these animals... I believe she was one of the first to work with them in Europe. I would love for her to post her findings here...

 

[Dragoon Gecko]

Hi together!
Well, I do not have any HM's in my collection yet. But from what I have seen in this forum and from my own personal experience I would say that although HM's and Four Eyed may look similar on the first view, they do have a different genetical background. In all the years I have never hatched a FE that looked like a HM or close.. The value of the dark pattern seems to me completely different in both types..

You can find the FE Head pattern from time to time in several different "Bloodlines", such as Trempers or Afgahans f.ex. Most of this animals when paired to normals do not reproduce this trait. We tried this in the beginning..

From what I know, Martina and I from Dragoon Gecko were the first in Europe to work with them, and who have fixed this pattern in one of our Bloodlines.

Right from the start, this project was focused only on the head pattern, so our founder animals came from extremly different backgrounds. In the early years, we have used macularius wildtype geckos, but also high yellow and tangerine. It was one of my very first projects, and now I am a little sad that I can't tell whats exactly in this line (in the first founder generation), especially after some really interesting geckos popped out of this pool..

In the last years, the mayority of our offspring shows the FE-trait. We cannot say now for sure if it behaves polygenetic (I think so lately) or incomplete dominant. What I know for sure is that there are different "levels" of how good/clear the FE Pattern can be:

The best examples show 2 black, unbroken bows with one spot in the center. Many FE's have unregular or broken bows, and no black sport in the center as adults.

The FE-Pattern is visible at hatchling, but for a proper evaluation you need to give them some time .

What I do find very interesting is that the FE's have always been and are still one of our strongerst and most fertile lines..

If you have any more questions about our findings you are very welcome ..

/Rebecca