Homosexuality in Leos

[Hankj]

I heard the news from New York while playing around, cleaning, and feeding my herd of animals and got me thinking.. I know I have heard arguments for homosexuality being a natural occurrence with the argument that some animals also express homosexuality.

*This post is not to debate gay rights or the moral disagreement of homosexuality and marriage.*

I would like to know if any of you guys, especially the breeders have noticed any of your geckos "preferring" the company of another gecko of the same sex. Have you ever noticed two geckos of the same sex trying to mate? I know the general rule is that males will try to kill each other but surely there is some exceptions.

Thoughts? Experiences? Stories?

 

[TokayKeeper]

Typically, animals of the same sex appearing to mate is generally relegated to a show of dominance over the submissive animal. I've observed this is males and females. With males, I was this in green anoles (Anolis carolinesis) and collared lizards (Crotaphytus collaris). Females I've observed this in bearded dragons. All were a captive situation.

Outside of herps, I've seen such interactions among dogs and cats.

 

[Tony C]

Outside of herps, I've seen such interactions among dogs and cats.

My oldest (female) cat frequently mounts the others, male and female, when they irritate her. I have also seen my male red eyes attempting to amplex each other, but they get so worked up at times that they will amplex anything. My poor (formerly) virgin finger... :main_laugh:

 

[TokayKeeper]

I'd forgotten about the wild amphibs I've seen doing such Tony. Guess I shrugged that off as just hormone overflow given the anurans here pretty much don't breed without our summer monsoons.

 

[Hankj]

I have seen dogs hump each other but that's is all they are trying to do to show dominance - hump.. right?

 

[Adinar]

Males will kill each other if put in with each other. They must be racist. LOL. (Kidding!)

 

[PaladinGirl]

Not sure about leopard geckos, but like others have said, dogs seem to partake in the activity. Animal sexuality, or whatever you want to call it and for whatever reason it takes place, is very interesting actually.

When I was little, we had 2 male dogs that went at it with each other. I have a female dog that frequently humps her pillow; in fact I finally had to throw it out because she destroyed it by chomping on it while humping it . My in-laws had a dog that always humped the cat.

That's interesting though, I've never wondered if the same behavior happens amongst reptiles.

 

[Euphillia]

When same sex mammals "hump" each other its a sign of social dominance. Nothing to do with "sexually" preferring the sex they are humping. The ONLY time mammals show sexual desire and excitement is when a female in in heat and then primal instincts kick in to breed. You will not see a female hump a female in heat because she's getting something out of it or she prefers the female. Animals just don't think that way.

As for reptiles I don't know. I own 2 females that are housed separately.

 

[TokayKeeper]

When same sex mammals "hump" each other its a sign of social dominance. Nothing to do with "sexually" preferring the sex they are humping. The ONLY time mammals show sexual desire and excitement is when a female in in heat and then primal instincts kick in to breed. You will not see a female hump a female in heat because she's getting something out of it or she prefers the female. Animals just don't think that way.

As for reptiles I don't know. I own 2 females that are housed separately.

Dolphins do....

 

[Tony C]

Dolphins do....

As do Bonobos and several other primates IIRC.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Personally, I have never observed any of my geckos do this. Since most animals breed instinctively and not for any other reason than procreation, there little if any other drive to mate. As stated above, dolphins, primates, and other higher life forms will copulate or 'fool around' just because it's fun... even with same-sex partners.

*Tony, we posted at the same time

 

[Tony C]

*Tony, we posted at the same time

DON'T DO IT AGAIN! :main_laugh:

 

[TokayKeeper]

DON'T DO IT AGAIN! :main_laugh:

If I remember right, dolphins were the first (only??) documented other animal outside of primates to engage in sex for "recreational" purposes.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Not againnnnnn!!!!

 

[TokayKeeper]

LOL...you see my post on Facebook? Tagged ya on a hatchling.

 

[M_surinamensis]

Setting aside true hermaphrodites and setting aside things like Lepidodactylus lugubris*... homosexual behaviors, biologically, usually result from species which have complex reproductive and rearing behaviors, where the interactions between individuals within a population are more detailed and nuanced than species which tend to be solitary, coming together only briefly to breed. Oftentimes it intersects with rearing behaviors or with species that have societal roles unique to individuals. The homosexual individuals don't directly reproduce themselves, but they perform some function that allows the population as a whole to thrive and reproduce.

One of the simplest examples are homosexual geese. Almost exclusively male, they sometimes form rearing groups with a heterosexual female, a bisexual male and a homosexual male. The bisexual male engages in sexual acts with both the male and the female, the female lays eggs, all three then guard and feed the goslings. The homosexual individual does not contribute genetic material to the ensuing generation but they do take an active role in ensuring that the species continues.

Not every sexually reproducing, one gender at a time species has homosexual individuals... but it's not unheard of among birds and mammals (which tend to reproduce in smaller numbers, then care for their offspring). I'd also sort of argue that it happens a lot among some fish and insects but the borders on defining sexual acts are a bit hazier when penetrative reproduction doesn't occur. Harem breeding fish with all the females communally caring for all the eggs and fry are pretty common, but the females don't have sex with one another; largely because most fish display external fertilization. I think an argument could be made that some sunfish display a sort of homosexual behaviors between males as well- and it is directly linked to the reproductive success of the sort of homosexual males. Some male snakes also imitate females, resulting in some same-gender behaviors that are adjacent to sex, breeding balls with no female snakes involved and so on.

Of course, opening it up a bit, asexuality isn't that uncommon either. Worker bees and soldier ants come to mind.

So non-heterosexual behaviors can potentially be biologically supported as a reason for the overall success of a species.

Also, almost by definition, anything that's observed in nature will make biological... sense. If we're confused by it, it's a flaw in our observation or indicative of an external factor (generally something we did) being introduced.

All that addresses some of the more generalized posts that have been made regarding homosexual behaviors in animals- leopard geckos aren't really examples of any of it.

Now, I'm off to go chuckle like a twelve year old hearing a dirty word over the subject of egg spots.

*mourning geckos are a bit of an anomaly. So very cool though.

 

[Hankj]

Fantastic comment, thank you. Since you cracked the ice I will say what I really wanted to say.

When dogs hump each other, they aren't trying to penetrate each other right? Just humping to show dominance? I haven't really tried to look.

 

[RampantReptiles]

Yes, its dominance in dogs. Dogs will hump any body part doesnt have to be the rear end so yeah... dominance.

I want to add that there are freshwater angel fish in which females will create breeding pairs. One female lays eggs and the other passes over them like she is a male fertilizing eggs, when in fact she cannot fertilize the eggs. Then the eggs all die since they are not fertilized, or maybe the angel fish eat them? I am not sure...

And mourning geckos is what I was trying to think of! Thanks.