How do you handle feeders for your leos (buying / storing questions)?

[art-teacher]

Hello everyone,
I currently keep crested geckos and snakes and am here because I've developed an interest in leos. Although I find leos very appealing, I want to make sure that I can meet their care needs before I move forward, particularly their diet requirements. I've never kept an insect-only species, so feeding schedules, quantities, etc. are all unknowns to me.


Based on what I've read so far, for leos to be feasible in my collection, I'd need to either produce my own food (i.e. dubia colony) or be able to order in semi-bulk (i.e. 3-4 months worth at a time) and then keep the insects alive until they have been consumed. Because I'd be starting with a small group of leos (thinking 1-3 females, juvies or sub adults if I can get them) I am not sure if ordering in bulk would work in my situation. So I'm here to ask how you guys handle your food (ordering, storing, cost, etc.) Please take a look at my questions below and feel free to comment / add any other advice you think would be helpful.


1. How do you buy or produce your food (i.e. online, in store, breed your own, etc.)?
2. What prey items do you feed regularly (not "treats", but staples)?
3. Roughly how many food items a month do your geckos eat (per gecko)?
4. How long do your feeders live, and how do you store them?
5. Is it feasible to bulk order for 1-3 geckos economically-speaking?


Thank you again for taking the time to read my post and any input your have.

 

[Olympus]

1. How do you buy or produce your food (i.e. online, in store, breed your own, etc.)?

For context, I have 4 adult African fat-tailed geckos and 3 adult chameleons, so none of them eat every day or in very large quantities. So I breed my own feeders (2-3 different species of roaches) and then other things like crickets and worms online.​

2. What prey items do you feed regularly (not "treats", but staples)?

My stables for everyone are mainly roaches, superworms, and crickets.
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3. Roughly how many food items a month do your geckos eat (per gecko)?

For strictly the geckos, I go through roughly 50 feeders per week for all 4 of them, so that means maybe 200 a month. My chameleons eat about the same or less, so if we double it maybe 400 a month. Baby geckos would go through more food than this because they would eat daily.
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4. How long do your feeders live, and how do you store them?

A box of 1,000 crickets lasts me over 6 weeks and a box of 1,000 superworms will last me a good 3-4 months. Roaches live forever, basically, especially if they are breeding steadily. If I order a box of crickets I will feed crickets more heavily that month so they don't go to waste. But if the next month I don't feel like ordering crickets I will pull from the roach colonies more exclusively. And because superworms last so long I may only order online every 2-3 months. And then treat foods I pick up locally at a herp store.

I store them in plastic storage containers; the roaches and crickets get deep, smooth plastic totes while the superworms get shallow totes. Crickets and roaches get egg flats to live on and superworms live in a bedding of oats and dry gutload ingredients. It's important to keep crickets clean and not to overcrowd them in a small space, or they will kill each other with the smell of their own dead. If you give them a nice sized tote for the amount you buy and keep it clean and dry you should have no smell and minimal die-off.​

5. Is it feasible to bulk order for 1-3 geckos economically-speaking?

I definitely think so. If you order something like superworms online in bulk you will have them for months. So for $15 you get 1,000 while at the pet store you get 100 for ~$6. Or 1,000 crickets for about the same, instead of at $0.12 each. Economically it makes a lot more sense to order online, especially feeders that last a long time like roaches or supers. Mealworms would also last you a long time but they would start breeding by themselves (unless you keep them cool, like in a wine cooler.)

The trick is to locale a feeder company that lives in your state or as close to you as possible and then shipping isn't as bad. The shipping costs won't be worth if it you live in Georgia and you're getting your feeders from California. But for example I can get bulk worms or crickets from a local Florida company for $17 shipped.
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[art-teacher]

Olympus- Thank you for your thorough response! When you get the feeders shipped to you, do they have to ship overnight? I am used to getting f/t rats/mice shipped to me for my snakes and know that shipping is a killer (so I order about 6 months worth at a time). If shipping for insects is cheaper than that, that would be great.

I actually do live in Georgia, so if you know of any companies in the FL/GA area that are good, I'd appreciate the information.

I would love to raise my own dubia, but I'll have to see if that idea goes over well with my husband (he's not into bugs at all) so I may have to get by with just ordering worms / crickets.

One other question for you. We go on maybe 2, week-long trips a year. I do have a pet-sitter, but I'm sure she would be less-than-thrilled about taking care of a roach colony or bin of crickets / worms.. Would colonies of feeders (or holding bins) be able to survive 1 week if given plenty of food / moisture sources beforehand? Would the same hold true for geckos (i.e. if fattened up on bugs beforehand, could geckos go one week with water but no bugs)? She does feed our cresteds, but dealing with liquid food is a bit easier than handling live insects.

Thank you again for your time and help!

 

[Olympus]

Ha, what a coincidence, I just named a state at random. I know that Small Pet Feeders and Georgia Crickets are both in Georgia, they would probably be your best bets. Lazy H Bait is the FL company I use, they may offer pretty low shipping to GA as well. Yes, in general bugs need to be shipped overnight.

With the possible exception of crickets, roaches and worms would do fine for a week. Roaches are incredibly hardy and worms will do ok, perhaps leave something that takes some time to eat (like chunks of carrot) in their bin for moisture.

The geckos would be alright as well IF they are close to or fully grown. Babies shouldn't go more than a couple or so days without food, but an older juvie would do just fine without food for a week. You can always leave a bowl in the cage with worms, as an alternative, so they can pick away at them. Perhaps by the time the gecko has finished all of them he's really only left without food 3-4 days out of the week.

 

[indyana]

1. How do you buy or produce your food (i.e. online, in store, breed your own, etc.)?

I have a colony of dubia roaches. I have also tried raising mealworms and crickets, but I found them too time consuming as far as cleaning goes.

Because I only have one gecko at current, I usually buy crickets and mealworms in small batches (~12-20) from the pet store rather than order online. I have ordered crickets and silkworm eggs online in the past though. The issue with crickets is that ordering in bulk doesn't make sense for one gecko unless you are going to maintain a breeding colony. The crickets grow too large and/or die off faster than my gecko can eat them.

The silkworm eggs I raised through to moths and let them lay a whole boat load of eggs, which I now have stored in my fridge. I can hatch out a small batch whenever I feel like it, as long as I have some silkworm food on hand. This was a little bit of effort to do, but I don't have to order silkworms online any longer.

2. What prey items do you feed regularly (not "treats", but staples)?

Dubia roaches, crickets, silkworms, mealworm pupae, new/pale mealworm beetles. I'm looking forward to trying out black soldier fly larvae (phoenix worms, calciworms, whatever) and isopods this coming year when shipping weather is good.

3. Roughly how many food items a month do your geckos eat (per gecko)?

I'd say 30-50 appropriately-sized feeders depending what his appetite is like. Keep in mind that I feed mostly dubia, which are very filling, as opposed to something like mealworms that would be less filling. As mentioned above, young geckos will eat more because they are still growing.

4. How long do your feeders live, and how do you store them?

Depends how good you are at taking care of them... When I first started, I would lose a ton of crickets. I now can keep most of them alive after making some improvements and adding a heat source. Each feeder has individual requirements that you should look up, but I keep all mine in appropriate containers with nutritious food and water sources. No refrigeration for anything except the silkworm eggs.

I find I usually have to worry about the feeders getting too large rather than them dying, so unless you're going to maintain a colony, it's better to do small batches.

5. Is it feasible to bulk order for 1-3 geckos economically-speaking?

Probably not for one gecko, but if you have more maybe. I find that feeders tend to either get too large or die off. The exception to this would be if you used mealworms/superworms and kept most of them in refrigeration. I don't really use either for my gecko as a staple.

 

[hgual22]

1. How do you buy or produce your food (i.e. online, in store, breed your own, etc.)? I buy mealworms at pet supplies plus, usually 250, and refridgerate them until a few days before feeding. I get crickets at ++++++++.
2. What prey items do you feed regularly (not "treats", but staples)? Mealworms and crickets. Hopefully I will be able to get some dubia roaches and phoenix worms though.
3. Roughly how many food items a month do your geckos eat (per gecko)? My gecko eats 8-10 mealworms monday, wednesday and friday. I'm still trying to get him to eat crickets... he is either lazy or a bad hunter.
4. How long do your feeders live, and how do you store them? My mealworms last a long time in the fridge. Lets say I feed monday, after he eats I refil the small cup I keep them in with more mealies from the fridge, and they eat cricket feed, oatmeal and carrots until they are fed to my gecko. I keep the crickets in a small cricket keeper. I only have a small amount because im still trying to find was he will eat them.
5. Is it feasible to bulk order for 1-3 geckos economically-speaking? Mealworms should be okay if kept in the fridge, so they dont turn into beetles. Crickets would grow big/die though.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

1. How do you buy or produce your food (i.e. online, in store, breed your own, etc.)?

I breed dubias and some mealworms but my geckos eat more than I can produce and still breathe in my small apartment so I wind up ordering most. I usually order on ebay from rainbow mealworms. I think 1000 mealworms shipped would cost around $12-15 (I usually buy 5000 or so at a time so I might be off). When they get here I put them in oatmeal with some gutload from MS2 enterprise or a local friend mixed in, give them an apple or sweet potato to drink
for 24 hours or so and put them in soup containers on the door of my fridge. I usually buy medium worms and they last for 2-3 months if I take them out once a week and give them 24 hours at room temperature with an apple or something so they have a chance to drink and shed. I raise most of my own dubia in a heated bin and buy a couple hundred super worms each month at a local reptile show and extra dubia if I need.

2. What prey items do you feed regularly (not "treats", but staples)?

Superworms, mealworms and dubia.

3. Roughly how many food items a month do your geckos eat (per gecko)?

Baby and juvenile geckos up to 40g eat about 30-50 mealworms a week. I usually feed them 5 dubia or so every other week in place of 5-10 worms.
Adults that are not eating get 20-30 mealworms per week in 2-3 meals of 10. I substitute 2 superworms or 2 dubia every other feeding or so. I monitor their weight and if they gain I feed less and if they lose I feed a bit more.

4. How long do your feeders live, and how do you store them?

Answered above

5. Is it feasible to bulk order for 1-3 geckos economically-speaking?

Yup! I would just order 1000 every month or two when you need them. This will probably be more than you can use so it's worth trying to raise some as well with the extras!

Mealworms are usually shipped priority (2-3 days). I've never had an issue when temps are between 35-80 other than having to pick them up at the post office when the mail carrier wouldn't leave them at my door when I was out. Over or under those temps you'd probably want to have them held for pickup at your post office and cross your fingers...haha. Since they last for a couple of months planning ahead for the dead of summer and winter when they may not survive is fairly easy. Superworms are a bit more temperature sensitive but the ones I've ordered have been fine. I buy dubia locally.

Good luck with your decisions!

 

[MsTwo EntFeeders]

1. How do you buy or produce your food (i.e. online, in store, breed your own, etc.)?

I do both, buy and produce. I have dubia colonies that I produce my dubia. I find them to be the best feeder to have on hand, especially since they really are prolific and what you don't use just keep in your colony to keep the colony going. I also have small meal worm colonies on hand for emergencies. I purchase mealworms, superworms, phoenix worms. I also grow out silk worms from eggs as staples. Some of my geckos will eat them, some won't but my dragons will and I find if you start anything on a food from young they will take to it. I try to offer a wide variety in diet. I do offer the treat foods once a month (butter worms, wax worms and horn worms to the ones that will take them).

2. What prey items do you feed regularly (not "treats", but staples)?

Staples for my leopard gekcos are dubia, meal worms and supers (although not as often as dubia and meal worms). For the ones that will take Phoenix worms readily I never hesitate to feed them those as they have such a great calcium level.

3. Roughly how many food items a month do your geckos eat (per gecko)?

I go through 5-8K meal worms per month (keep in mind that I do have probably about 1000 that I take from bowls that have sat for a bit. I never recycle feeders and those are just loss feeders (meaning frozen). The leftovers that are unused maybe 500 sometimes 1K go into my mealworm colonies I maintain. I never take pupae from the gecko bowls and put them into the meal worm colonies. The same with dubia. I never transfer dubia or meal worms from one geckos feeder bowl to another for safety sake. I just find it to be best practice. A dubia that has been in a gecko tub and is uneaten after a while will be quickly euthanized and put in a freezer bag. Wax worms too should be disposed of this way because if they were to get out and turn into moths they can cause harm to bee hives. Just FYI.

4. How long do your feeders live, and how do you store them?

Meal worms are stored in a large flat screen lidded bin with ground oats mixed with my MS2 Chow. They are put in the refrigerator (not terribly cold) and taken out 1x a week, fed a little extra chow, given carrots, spaghetti squash or some other organic vegetable or fruit for hydration. I leave them out for 24 hours to let them eat. While in the refrigerator they are in stasis and they use their body reserves to stay alive. This is why it is important to take them out to feed once a week. I take out any leftover food that is uneaten, remove any dead and put them back in the refrigerator. Super worms also go in a screen lidded bin with oats and MS2 chow. It is important to know that oats have a higher phosphorus content so feeding them foods higher in calcium especially before you feed them off is essential. The phosphorus level is higher than wheat bran, however many people have wheat bran allergies and I tend to try to reduce my risks of allergies and compensate by using high calcium gutloading vegetables like spaghetti squash, cactus pads or collard greens prior to feeding and using a high quality calcium. I am a fan of the calcium complex from beardeddragon.co that has magnesium and serrapeptase and that actually can help increase calcium absorption. It is important as well to use organic fruits and vegetables. I have used non-organic as a test when I first started and seen several dead supers the very next day. So that has made me a fan to switch to organic from the get go. I keep supers at room temperature. Refrigerating them will kill them.

Dubia are stored in a large tote, dark with smooth sides. Baby dubia nymphs can climb rather well so you just need to keep an eye out. Some use a barrier around the top of their tubs of packing tape to make a slippery surface that they cannot grip on. I found just being aware when I open the bin is enough. I keep them on heat providing a heat gradient allowing them to thermoregulate. I keep the heat at about 88 to 90. Dubia thrive best in crowded conditions. So if you only have a few to start, use a smaller bin. A small section of the lid should be screened, allowing for air flow. You may see people saying to mist the tub---this is not a good idea as mold will kill your colony faster than anything else. (this is not the case for other roach types who need higher humidity like lateralis) Having a dish of water crystals in your tub should be plenty sufficient. I change water crystal dish every 2 days, regardless of if it is empty or not. I put in about a 1/4-1/2 cup of MS2 chow. One of the most important things I can say is take any uneaten fruits and vegetables out after 24 hours of putting it in, to avoid mold. Also of great importance is do not clean it too often! Baby dubia thrive on the frass... gross sounding but oh so true. They need the frass to survive and will not venture out for food. So when you do a tub cleaning save a good scoop or so of the frass (I suggest 1x a month tub cleaning) and put it back in the clean tub for the babies to eat. You will see production levels increase if you do this. The other thing you can do is leave them alone as much as possible. Feed them, water them and leave them alone and they will breed the best. I keep a separate tub for feeders that I have pulled out so I am not constantly disturbing my colony to pull out feeders.

5. Is it feasible to bulk order for 1-3 geckos economically-speaking?

Yes. You can order 500-1000 meal worms and see how long that lasts you. If you choose crickets order the smallest size you can get away with. Dubia you can order smalls and most geckos will eat the smalls. I order from Rainbow Mealworms and am very happy with my orders, they last a long time and (both meal worms and supers).

I hope this helps.

Marcy