How to identify hatchlings? possibilities: SS-DB, Snow-DB, SS-Raptor, Snow-Raptor

[tb144050]

I am asking ahead of time to clarify how to identify the hatchlings' morphs because it might be a nightmare..??

Here's my breeding group:

Male - Snow Diablo Blanco

Female - Snow raptor het Blizzard
Female - Raptor het blizzard
---------------------------------

So, as listed in the title, I am expecting:

SS Diablo blancos
Snow Diablo blancos
Diablo blancos
SS Raptors (het blizzard)
Snow Raptors (het blizzard)
and
Raptors (het blizzard)

....So ummmm...what are the key identification points for some of these morphs please? (for example, my Snow DB looks identical in skin color to my Snow Raptor.....he may be a tiiiiiiny bit whiter, as she looks just a little pinkish but still very white...)

 

[tb144050]

Any advice on how to pinpoint any one of the morphs as hatchlings?

 

[tb144050]

Can I get annny advice about hatchling appearance and/or tell-tale signs of these morphs? (for example, "eclipse hatchlings usually have a white nose & feet."

Just looking for any tips at all. I really don't want to search/study 20 pics of each snow version and definitely don't want to post a pic of each and every hatchling I have from this breeding trio.

 

[indyana]

I'm pretty sure a few of those are going to be impossible to determine without test breeding. For example, Super Snow RAPTOR and Diablo Blanco look a lot like, and figuring out which Diablo Blancos are Snow or Super Snow... It should be easier to pick out the "plain" RAPTORs in that bunch. I was hoping someone who already works with those lines might have some tricks for you. :/

 

[JBReptiles]

DB tend to hatch a bit pink and translucide color and sometimes few yellow hue after first shed (as blazing blizzard do), Ms DB hatch solid white and not translucide (as ms blazing do too) and super db looks like a mix of both with less white than a snow db and more pinkish as a normal db, but also not translucide coloration, also the supers db have the eyes of the super snow tremper, so it's a darker red than the normal or ms db ones that have the red eyes coloration of eclipse tremper and not the one of super snows trempers...The most difficult for me to identify is SUper snow blazing and super DB as they looks pretty identical (you can also hatch this and you forget in your calcul blazing, snow blazing and super snow blazing)

At begining it can be very confusing to identify them, but after hatching many of them you'll get the eye and it's also easier to see difference when you can have a visual on each of them...Also to consider that all lines can act different with blazing blizzard, some of them can be more yellowish /greyish than others...

Hope it's help a bit, i could send you some pictures but it'll not be giving any help actually as the difference is hardly possible to see on picture but kind of "evident" from eyes live look at the animals one beside the other..

 

[tb144050]

DB tend to hatch a bit pink and translucide color and sometimes few yellow hue after first shed (as blazing blizzard do), Ms DB hatch solid white and not translucide (as ms blazing do too) and super db looks like a mix of both with less white than a snow db and more pinkish as a normal db, but also not translucide coloration, ......

Thanks for the very detailed reply. These key points are exactly the kind of tips I am looking for.

 

[tb144050]

*bump* Anyone else have any other useful tips to help identify hatchlings?

I am already getting eggs from: Snow DB male x Raptor het Blizzard female. These hatchlings will be my "warm up" for identification practice before I get eggs from: Snow DB male x Snow Raptor het Blizzard. :O

 

[Yveskevin]

hey they Ark - glad to see you here. sorry for reviving this months old post of yours but i have the same problem actually.

before we start lets use these acronyms for reference:
* MS = Mack Snow
* SS = Super Snow
* DB = Diablo Blanco
* RP = RAPTOR

now, if you remember my future breeder post in Leopard Gecko facebook group, two of them i intend to pair up which is the mack snow diablo blanco and the super raptor 50% het blizzard.

here's my posssible offsprings:

MS DB x SS RP:
1/2 MS RP het Blizzard
1/2 SS RP het Blizzard

MS DB x SS RP het Blizzard:
1/4 MS RP het Blizzard
1/4 SS RP het Blizzard
1/4 MS DB
1/4 SS DB

here are my findings, after countless hours of asking experts who actually have the actual specimens and studying pictures from the net:

ordered by the easiest to identify to the hardest (near impossible to identify):

RAPTOR (RP) - this would depend on what you consider a RAPTOR. some consider TREMPER + ECLIPSE as a RAPTOR while some say the PATTERNLESS STRIPE should be present to make it a RAPTOR. this is where the term "True RAPTORs" (the one with patternless stripe gene) were derived from as well as the Banded RAPTOR (the one with just the tremper and eclipse gene only. probably doesnt carry the tangerine as well as i have yet to see one) or what we call here in the Philippines a RABTOR (Red-eye Albino "Banded" Tangerine ORange).

*** True RAPTORs - born with white face, white tail tip with some carroting, pale yellow "patternless" body, mostlikely with white feet because of the eclipse gene. @ 2-3 months of age, "SOME" true raptors develop visible markings but mostly pale markings and is very minimal.

*** Banded RAPTORs (aka RABTOR) - born like a TREMPER but with eclipse eyes. period. when i say born like a tremper, i do mean its born with pink/brown and yellow bands. and will mature like a hypo tremper with 2 ruby red eyes.

Mack Snow RAPTOR (MS RP) - this one can be misleading sometimes. technically speaking a MS RP is a TREMPER + ECLIPSE + MACK SNOW + PATTERNLESS STRIPE (subject to what you consider a RAPTOR, either with a patternless stripe gene or not). MS RP is born pinkish with yellow hue on the body (if it has patterless stripe gene. if not, it will have white bands or probably pale yellow bands). @ 2-3 months of age, "SOME" of them will develop their markings because of the mack snow gene. if they do develop markings/patterns on the body, they would be more visible/prominent markings than that of a RAPTOR alone; with the exception of the RABTOR of course).

Diablo Blanco (DB) - dont confuse this with a MS RP. instead of a pinkish body, these are born with white body (blizzard gene) with a little yellowish hue much like what a blazing blizzard would have, but with an eclipse eye of course. as they age, some reduce the yellow hue while some retain it.

Super RAPTOR (SS RP) - i have one of these hatch out. lets breakdown the genes first. A SS RP is a TREMPER + ECLIPSE + SUPER SNOW + PATTERNLESS STRIPE (subject to what you consider a RAPTOR, either with a patternless stripe gene or not, but its not important as all hatchlings would all be patternless due to the SS gene present). A SS RP is born with a pink/flesh/beige-like patternless body but with "NO" yellow hues that a MS RP would have. @ 2-3 months of age, "SOME" (again, "not all of them") start to show the "super snow albino pattern" which is the groups of golden-yellow/beige-like spots vertically placed across the body, but the coloration of that marking will be very faint to the point where you wouldnt notice the lines if you look at it from afar (a SS Albino alone will have that pattern/marking very prominent/visual). some of them when they mature look all white while some looks more like a "very pale" golden white / beige-like color.

Snow Diablo Blanco (MS DB) - like the one i have, he was born with an all white body. no yellow hues. no pink-ness whatsoever. kind of "frosty" looking, perhaps like how dry ice would look like.

Super Snow Diablo Blanco (SS DB) - this one im not so sure, information ill provide for this one is based on observation of pictures from the net only as none seems to exist so far here in the philippines (hopefully, ill be the first!). anyways, to my suprise, pictures of hatchlings looks like that of a SS RP; pinkish, patternless, no yellow hue. i was expecting it to be more "whiter" than the MS DB. i mean, it is a "Super" right? the higher form of the MS gene. the difference of it from a SS RP that i noticed is that the body seems to be more transparent/silky. kind of like how a pinky mice would look like (seriously!) but of course as it matures becomes an extremely white gecko as seen in pictures from the net.

it almost impossible to tell them apart when they mature.
a DB who loses the yellow hue,
a SS RP that doesnt show the "SS albino line/pattern" and doesnt develop the very pale golden white coloration,
a MS DB
and a SS DB - would all look similar to each other. which is a pure white gecko.

to all other readers, i do not posses/currently own any DB (though i have seen one first hand, friend of mine's hatchling) and a SS DB, yet! so if there are some information here that seems wrong, let me know. lets work them out.

 

[mitchrobot]

head shape is one way to arrow it down, supersnows always have kind of a sloped snout with a knobby nose, non supers have a more rounded off triangle shape. top view is more of a V compared to a U. but both SS DB and SS raptor will start out looking the same otherwise. SS raptors tend to develop some color or pattern a little later on, if you cool them down it will bring out the spots sooner, but then if your not going for that look it will take a while. mine have ended up with faint yellow SS patterns, pink patterns and my founding male is super dark brown on the spots (but all will have white arms, nose and tail tip). i know some super raptors stay white, but i havnt hatched any like that.

my snow DBs look like the supers but with a different head shape, they start out more pink than my SSs as well, easiest indicator would be the eyes....if they are snake eye at all they arent supers. otherwise go by head shape. some of my snow DBs also develope some yellow on the sides. normally my DBS come out very yellow and just look like albino blizzards with eclipsed or snake eye eyes.
snow raptors will be a pinker lighter verson of raptors, raptors will be very orange. typically, ill try to get some pics up from this season a little later!