Is Rex sick?

[sleepyjones]

Howdy folks.
First post, hopefully the first of many.

I bought 2 Leo's from an exotic pet store 3 weeks ago (on Saturday). When I got them the guy said they were about 6 months old, one (Iggy) is doing fine, seems to have a nice plump tail ... not as big as a lot of the pictures of Leo's I've seen, but I assume that's 'cause he's younger.

I've got them both housed together, I didn't think this would be a problem since they were housed together in the store. It's a 3 foot x 1 foot vivarium. They have 2 hides, one in the warm side (85 - 92oF), and one in the cold side (75 - 80oF). The warm side is heated by a heat mat and a 60w bulb. They have wet Sphlagem? moss in the warm hide.
They have daily clean water in the viv, they have Calcium in a tub, and they have a mealworm dish.
At the moment im using beech chips as a substrate, I know you shouldn't use this but the guy in the shop said it would be fine for my sized Leo's, I've also got a piece of laminte flooring in the viv, which Is where I usually feed them when feeding manually. I've bought Reptile Carpet though, and I will be installing it at the weekend.

I've seen the larger Leo (Iggy) eating crickets, but to date I've only seen Rex eating once, and that was a mealworm I put in front of him, he wouldn't eat a second one. I was a bit concerned that he wasn't eating enough so I bought some smaller mealworms and some waxworms to see if he would take them, which he wont. I've also bought small Locusts, but wanted to check in here if they're ok to feed to Leo's.

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a few questions.
1) Does Rex look thin? (bit of a crap pic, perspective is a bit wrong)
2) Are Locusts ok to feed Leos?
3) Do I have too much stuff in my viv, which is maybe stressing them?

Rex

Viv

Thanks folks

PS ... I keep saying "him", but they are actually both female.

 

[Daidra]

He looks very sick and if I were you I would seperate them and take him and some fecal to the vet to have it checked for parasites as I have 6month old leopard geckos and they weight around 60+g also it may be to late and the other leo in the cage will most likely have parasites as well,so take him and some fecal to the vet and have it tested for parasites and also take the sand out of the cage as they can become impacted and sand harbors parasites,also make sure you are cleaning the poop out daily as parasites will be in it as leos naturally have a small amount of parasites that are good for them and help break the fecal down but parasites will get out of control if the fecasl is not taken out daily.Hope I was able to help you out.

 

[sleepyjones]

Thanks for your reply
I don't have any sand in the viv, just Beech wood chips and they're coming out anyway.
I do generally clean out the poop every day, and I replace their water everyday, my Leo's don't seem to poop in the same place all the time though as I usually find it hard to find (another reason why the wood chips are coming out).

I'll try and get a fecal (although I havn't noticed any in the viv for the past couple of days).

 

[Daidra]

I f you don't see any fecal in the viv than you should put them both in warm water only to there lower stomach and that should help them use the bathroom and also get a vet appointment ASAP so that if it is internall parasites they should be able to give you medicine for it just prey that its not crptospirodom as it is contagious to any other geckos in the same cage and it is deadly,all parasites are contagious but that 1 will cill them.Oh and sorry as the bottom pic looked like sand.

 

[OSUgecko]

Daidra, parasites are not beneficial and don't help geckos break down nutrients. All animals have some beneficial bacteria in their guts which serve this purpose, but the bacteria are not parasites.

Separating the geckos is a good idea, but if they have been housed together for who knows how long, they have already thoroughly exposed each other to any pathogens one might be harboring. The primary benefit of separating them would be that you could monitor their feed intake better. Hand feeding them is probably way too stressful right now; they might do a lot better if you just left crickets or mealworms in the tank overnight. Some geckos really don't like eating in front of people, especially if they aren't accustomed to human contact. Rex may feel more comfortable if she is allowed to hunt at her leisure. Split them up in different tanks so you know for sure which gecko ate what; then just count how many bugs you put in the tanks, and find out how many are gone the next morning. You should remove any uneaten crickets after 24 hours as crickets may try to bite your geckos if they get hungry enough. Mealworms won't do this, so you can leave them in longer.

I would definitely take both geckos to a good exotics vet for a thorough checkup/fecal float ASAP; this is always the best thing to do when acquiring any new animals. Ask around and don't take them to the first vet you see; try to get some recommendations as good exotics vets are few and far between in some places. Also, as you already mentioned, get them on reptile carpet as soon as you can.

How are you measuring the cage temperatures? You need to measure the floor temperatures (by using a probe, for example), not the ambient temperatures. The geckos are experiencing the floor temperatures far more than the ambient temperatures. Also, try to avoid handling them as much as possible. Especially since you just got them, any sort of handling is going to be a huge, unnecessary stress on their systems.

In response to your questions:

#1. Yes, Rex does look thin in the picture you posted. This could be due to a multitude of different things. She could have a bacterial, viral, or parasitic infection. It could also be behavioral in a roundabout way. Are the two geckos very different in size? If Rex is the smaller one, it's possible that Iggy is bullying her and not letting her eat/stressing her out constantly. Your exotics vet will be the best resource for figuring this out.

#2: I have never heard of feeding leopard geckos locusts. Most people on this forum feed their geckos on a staple of mealworms, crickets, or roaches, with occasional waxworms as treats, and this seems to work really well. A few people will also feed phoenix worms to help increase the calcium content of their diet. I would probably stick with the proven feeders if I were you... besides, they are probably a lot more economical to purchase! You should not feed your gecko wild-caught insects... they may be contaminated with pesticides or carry parasites to your gecko.

#3. On the contrary, put more hides in! If you have multiple geckos in a cage, make sure that there is at least one hide per gecko on both the warm and the cool side of the cage (geckos don't always share hides well.). Geckos love to have lots of "hidey holes" - the more the better.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask more questions, and welcome to the forums! We will do our best to help you out with your new additions.

 

[SleepyDee]

#2: I have never heard of feeding leopard geckos locusts. Most people on this forum feed their geckos on a staple of mealworms, crickets, or roaches, with occasional waxworms as treats, and this seems to work really well. A few people will also feed phoenix worms to help increase the calcium content of their diet. I would probably stick with the proven feeders if I were you... besides, they are probably a lot more economical to purchase!

to go OT for a minute with regards feeding leo's locusts ~ a lot of people use locusts/hoppers here in the UK either as a staple or a treat
We get them in various sizes ranging from hatchling through to large (adult) ~ I buy the small to medium for my leo's (depending on leo size) as a treat and they love them .... yes they work out expensive but with the correct care etc they can be bred at home :main_thumbsup:

 

[OSUgecko]

@SleepyDee: Cool! Thanks for sharing that.

 

[sleepyjones]

I changed the substrate to Reptile carpet and still nothing.

I've tried Mealies, Crickets, Waxworms, locusts and even the "Gecko Food" you buy in a tub (made from flies and stuff?) ... he won't eat any of them, either set free in the viv, or by tongs.

Poor wee fellas off to the vet tomorrow @ 6.
I'll let you know what happens

This is Rex and Iggy, they're both supposed to be the dame age, but as you can see one (Iggy) is much larger than the other (Rex).

 

[bubblez825]

the tank looks good . Make sure to keep us updated after the vet trip and i hope all works out well with the geckos.

If you want, try and squeezing the guts out of a meal worm and touching the guts to the geckos mouth to see if they will lick it off....just my idea

 

[Daidra]

Actually OSUGecko they are parasites that break the fecal down but it is a very small amount and if you read up on leopard geckos maybe then you will understand everything there is to know about leopard geckos and I know as I breed them and due all of there vet needs as that will be my profession and I will be attending Ohio State University in the fall for the best vet program around.

 

[OSUgecko]

Daidra, this has already been discussed on another thread. As you will learn in your vet school parasitology classes, intestinal parasites are not beneficial; by their very definition, they steal nutrients from their hosts. While parasites may not be present in high enough numbers to create enough pathology to cause clinical signs in all infected animals, they are not assisting the host in digestion at any time. In fact, they usually decrease the amount of nutrients the host is able to absorb.

BTW, I have completed all of the parasitology courses offered at Oklahoma State University College of Veterinary Medicine, have done quite a bit of research on leopard geckos, and plan to specialize in exotic animal veterinary medicine.

 

[sleepyjones]

Put 3 small locusts in the viv last night, and couldn't find them this morning, which is a good sign ... still off to the vets though.

 

[OSUgecko]

Did you split them up like I suggested? If not, there's no way for you to tell which gecko is eating.

 

[sleepyjones]

I did split them, but probably not in the best way ... I just cut a piece of laminate flooring the width of the vivarium to divide it right up the middle, so they would both still have a hot and cold area ... it didn't occur to me that the locusts would easily be able to hop over that. It did mean I could get a definate poop sample from both though.

So, went to the vet last night ... all is good apparently. The vet had a look at them both, looked in their mouths, checked all their joints and stuff and said they both looked fine. Both were pretty active, running about all over the place (Rex even jumped off the vets table). I did bring a (poop) sample with me, but the vet said it wouldn't be enough to get a conclusive result.

So, all in all It looks like everything is ok, and Im maybe just a bit more worried / paranoid about them than I should be. The vet did suggest that Rex might just be a small gecko, and not to worry too much about the thin tail. I've to bring her back in though if I notice and discharge from their mouth or nose, but other than that they're good.
He did give me a powder thing, which gives them energy and is an appetite stimulant (or something like that, it's a powder you mix in with their water), but I think he only gave me that to ease my mind a bit ... gave me it free too, result

Thanks guys.
I'll keep you updated with how they're doing ... but they do seem to like Locusts, so im gonna go get some more of them, and some small crickets, I think the ones I had last time were too big.

 

[2bacop]

thats great! I would still keep them seperate and the way you did it sounds fine.