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As of now I have eight females varying from banded, rainwater albino, blizzards, superhypo-tangerine-carrot tail-baldy, and normal. Mated between two males one a blizzard and one normal (not sure if he's het for anything). But I cant remember how many eggs can one female produce in a breeding season? I believe some of the females may have produced four eggs each already beginning from march 5.
Are you not sure about the identity of the mothers per eggs? The blizzard pairings will produce "het blizzards" but you have to know for sure which mother laid the eggs. :0
I am expressing the importance of that because your quote above implies that some of your females lay 1clutch/week (4 eggs since March 5?). This is my first season, but I think the shortest laytime I have ever read about was 12days in a tropical 85F climate (which helps to produce the eggs rapidly inside the mother, according to the post??).
Ooops...
* with the exception of your blizzard female mating with your blizzard male.
Those babies will appear pretty obvious unless:
1 or more of the other geckos have the "hidden het blizzard". Then it would look like the parents were the "blizzard x blizzard" until you get a clutch with "1 blizzard, 1 something-else"..hehe
* with the exception of your blizzard female mating with your blizzard male.
Those babies will appear pretty obvious unless:
1 or more of the other geckos have the "hidden het blizzard". Then it would look like the parents were the "blizzard x blizzard" until you get a clutch with "1 blizzard, 1 something-else"..hehe
I house all my females in a large enclouser i built. I rotate males every other week. I dont have room for a rack system because i house many other herps and space is limited. But i do watch my geckos everday and known which female is about to lay. I have a general idea on which eggs belong to which mother.
Ok. Hopefully there are no mixups. My biggest fear is that I would get my eggs mixed up and my whole next breeding season would be ruined. I have a blizzard named Smoke, and I am planning to test breed him for any hets to my Tremper female. It would ruin my year (next year) if I accidently used "supposedly-het-blizzard" hatchling females (after they reach 55g next year) in the next....and then found out that I got my eggs mixed up. :O That is my own fear, and I was just trying to help save you some grief.
It's all in the details. When you "rotate males", you let the male move in for a week and randomly mate with any willing female? If so, please read the following link. It has been debated before but most moderators and professional breeders would vote for monogomous matings.
http://geckoforums.net/f131-leopard-gecko-breeding/34404.htm
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Egg mixups, random mating, and rematings with the "male of the week" are common ways of "muddying the waters" because these practices do not produce "quality, genetically-proven geckos". Some people would call the offspring "pet quality." Sometimes, I fondly refer to my pet-quality gecko as a "mutt".
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This must be a new practice of not group breeding. This was excpted back when i bred geckos 8 to 9 years ago. I gess its to keep better records of different genetic traits, which is fine. I will think about setting a rack system after this season to determine next seasons breeding setups. As for now to little to late, but im still haveing posivite results as of now. Thanks for the info
This is my rookie year, so of course there is always the possibility that I am wrong.
A common practice is to "not muddy the waters" by breeding in ways that create "genetically unknown" geckos or geckos with "undesired crossings", such as crossing different albino strains.
Group breedings tend to be generally accepted if:
-There is only 1 male that mates with the females.
-The eggs/hatchlings are 100% accurate on the genetics (which mother laid them....the father is the only male in the group, so that part is simple..lol)
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If I understand it right, your females are (or were going to) receive sperm from a different male each week. If you give your females sperm from your "normal" and your "blizzard", there is no way to know if the hatchling is "normal" or "het blizzard" (unless there is some other factor about the "normal" male that will make it's hatchlings 100% identify-able??).
...and you might have a little confusion about which females are laying which eggs.
^^That is 1 clutch each per each week for "some" of your females. I think you are mixing up the mother/egg matches or you might have a world-record.
-My current (first ever) breeding females have been carrying their first clutch for 18days (Ruby) and about 12day (Rosie).
-I read a post the other day about a Leo who carried 23days.
-The never-wrong (sarcasm...lol) internet says leo's will produce eggs in "2-5weeks", but I think 5weeks is for females who have not even begun to ovulate or to reabsord ovules/eggs and then re-develop eggs.
-One forum-member said they have Leo's that can lay "as fast as 12days, but that is in tropical Venezuela...where the warmer temps help the Leo's produce faster".
.......
So I think you might wanna check your mother/eggs matches or call Guiness World Records.
(sorry for my silly humor..I am deliriously sleepy right now).Hopefully I have helped to improve your results. As I stated earlier, my own fear is that one day I will mix up my eggs. This kind of mixup could easily ruin 2 breeding projects later:
--1) The "het blizzard" pairing turns out to be the "normal"; and/or
--2) the "normal het momma-genetics" turns out to be my "het blizzard".
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While hatchdates & recent behavior are still fresh on your mind, you can probably still sort out the eggs. Just be sure to confirm that your calculations are correct by trying to identify the hatchlings phenotypes. But the problem would still remain of hidden hets (for example, if the blizzard is the father & both males already mated a female).
Good luck
Most eggs have been fathered by the male normal leopard gecko, the blizzard has been introduced to the females for not as long. So most eggs will have the normal gene, eggs I believe from now on should be sired by the blizzard male. I think I will just keep the blizzard male in the cage with the females for the rest of the breeding season. Here's a pic of my incubator as of yesterday.
I wish it was so simple. It would make life alot easier for us all...lol One mating can provide the female with enough "stored sperm" to lay several clutches, possibly enough for their whole season.
I've read in some "multiple male" posts (like the one I linked earlier), that a mating with another male will give the female an unknown mix of both males sperm stored and to be randomly used for fertilization.
So:
-In some cases, it might be possible that the female "ran out" of male#1's sperm, then the second male was introduced and only male#2's sperm was available after that mating.
-In other cases, the female still may have male#1's sperm in "storage". A mating with another male will add male#2's sperm to the storage area. In this case, I think I understand that the hatchlings will be produced from randomly chosen sperm.....so you have to rely on any PHENOTYPES (visual appearance or visually confirmed genetics) to determine the father.
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In summary:
....^^this is not a guaranteed truth, unless "male#1's sperm had ran empty" or maybe, as seen in other cases, "male#1 is infertile" (which is why a second male was introduced in that case, to confirm male#1-infertility).
Also, in attemps to be helpful, I wanted to let you know that I personally don't trust the analog gauges (of any type or brand). I have had too many confirmed inaccuracies.
In the past I had an analog temp/humidity combo. When I bought a digital temp/humidity gauge+probe, I confirmed the analog gauges were off by 7degrees F and 40% humidity errors.
Just this morning, I confirmed the innacuracy of a Pet_o temp gauge by 5 degrees when I had all the temp probes and thermometers in one location....comparing variances among the digital gauges and comparing to analog gauges. Below is the pic after I finished installing my dig gauges after "comparing variances". The wall-mount thermometer was surprisingly accurate (within 2degrees F).
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In the past I had an analog temp/humidity combo. When I bought a digital temp/humidity gauge+probe, I confirmed the analog gauges were off by 7degrees F and 40% humidity errors.
Just this morning, I confirmed the innacuracy of a Pet_o temp gauge by 5 degrees when I had all the temp probes and thermometers in one location....comparing variances among the digital gauges and comparing to analog gauges. Below is the pic after I finished installing my dig gauges after "comparing variances". The wall-mount thermometer was surprisingly accurate (within 2degrees F).
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TB144050 I understand that females can store sperm, I've understood everything that you have stated. Please stop knocking each method that I have done or have showed in a picture. I my self and many friends have breed reptiles these ways. I understand many people don't like group breeding sense you were nice enough to show me that link regarding it. But I have heard and know many people whom practice these methods. I have a understanding of who fathered whom and who laid what. I don't wish to post all of the ways in which I take care of or breed my Leo's. Also I like the analog gages I have used this method for years and it works great. If temp or humidity is off by two degrees big deal I'm not worried about it. I'm breeding these herp's for the fun of it, and not to come up with some new crazy color morphology to sell for big bucks. Also if breeding these little guys was such hard work, or expressing different genetics to express different phenotypes was difficult people in this society would have given years ago on this species. Sometimes overthinking things get's one over his/hers head.
Also both males are fertile I know this from past breeding seasons fore I bought them from a friend who works at the St. Louis Zoo, whom has breed many herp's over his years, also I know what phenotype means. I have graduated from Southern IL University with a major in Zoology and a minor in Wildlife Biology. I have worked with many reptile and amphibian species in field and laboratory settings such as working with the Ranna virus with wood frogs and yellow spotted salamanders. I'm not a noob to this hobby I'm not up set by your last post it just got under my skin a bit. I understand these forms are here for everyone to help each other, but I just want you to understand I know what I'm doing. Nevertheless I do want to thank you though for contributing important information to my post. Enough said rant over.
In my previous posts, I attempted to help you prevent mislabeling/misidentifying the hatchlings. In my last post, I thought you would want to know that the analog gauges are confirmed inaccurate...to the point that it could kill the eggs or, at the very least, cause the intended "sex" of the eggs to be wrong.
I also tried to help the gecko community by helping you to prevent "muddy waters." However, it is your right to randomly mate "pet quality" and lovely none-the-less geckos. I agree, as you stated in your last post, that it is fun to let them run loose and make babies....and it would not be as much fun if you had to take notes and pay attention to details.
Alot of people do this for fun and "many people whom practice these methods" intend to sell the hatchlings.... Well, when I was in college, I knew alot of people who did many things for fun....but I wouldn't really consider those things as ethical, moral, or just generally good in any way other than "fun." Unfortunately, some people are like the college party-ers and refuse to take good advice. Even after pointing out the ABSOLUTE truths such as DUI's, alcohol abuse, alcohol poisoning, and all the other things that result from "fun careless" behavior, they say "it'll be ok...".
Or in the example of pets, some people just don't care if they:
-are making mutts,
-using equipment that others, in attempts to help, have said are inaccurate
-horribly, probably selling the pets with inaccurate descriptions about their genetics and parents (because they don't even know which mother or father provided the genes)
Per your request, I will stop trying to help you. But really, I would call Guiness World Records if I had several females that are each laying 4 eggs in 14 days, (March 5 - March 19).
.....and please be sure to tell future owner's that these geckos are "pet quality" only.Good luck and more power to you.
(over & out)
TB I'm sorry if you got upset from my post, but you don't know me or my practices. I don't do carless behavior also I do take advise from many of the people around me which I thanked you in my last posted. Nevertheless I don't partake in carless stereotyped college behavior. I don't drink for one. I also will selling mutts which most people are when they start out in this hobby, I cant afford to go to Ron Trempers or any other large breeders collection and buy what they have. So yes I will probable have some mutts but everyone does. And selling geckos with false descriptions regarding their genetics wont be happing. Furthermore please stop with the petty japs towards myself with contacting Guiness world records. I made a mistake on the amount of eggs being laid by one female. You are new to breeding as well and will most likely have mistakes too. Plus I never told you to stop trying to help me. I don't want to cause any ripples in the water, so I'm apologizing if I hurt your feelings.
1) I didn't say you drink (at all). I said I new people in college and used it as a comparable example of people who intentionally ignore good advice about correcting "less than desireable" behavior/practices.
2)
I assume this to mean that you will be selling them? (no comment anymore)
3)
If you want to use it, I provided advice in one of my previous posts describing how to attempt the mother's identification (of any mystery eggs) based on phenotype. However, as also previously stated, it will be difficult (almost impossible?) to identify the mother of "mystery eggs" because each of the mothers has mated and stored sperm from multiple males.
4) I am indeed a beginner. In my first posts on the forums I asked ALOTTT of questions, was wrong often, but most importantly: I listened and learned about the care, genetics, and approved practices before I began breeding geckos. Even these days, I still make errors, typos, and I refrain from entering subjects that I will not be helpful to, (especially dominant genetics because I am beginning with recessive genes in my first breeding season).
5) Even though I am a beginner, I spent the necessary money to buy 6 genetically-known ("quality") geckos. I am a "bargain shopper" and I bought all 6 for $300, shipped....just a few dollars more than the pet-store price for "genetically unknown, health unknown geckos). Other than that, I am simply paying attention to details and taking necessary precations as needed.
I just posted this to "clear the air" on where I stand with my own "opinions" and advice. If you want to use any of my advice, it is already listed in my previous posts. I simply ask that you sell any of these hatchlings as clearly labeled "pet geckos" because you were confused about who the mothers are AND your females have received sperm from 2 (or more) males.
2)
I assume this to mean that you will be selling them? (no comment anymore)
3)
If you want to use it, I provided advice in one of my previous posts describing how to attempt the mother's identification (of any mystery eggs) based on phenotype. However, as also previously stated, it will be difficult (almost impossible?) to identify the mother of "mystery eggs" because each of the mothers has mated and stored sperm from multiple males.
4) I am indeed a beginner. In my first posts on the forums I asked ALOTTT of questions, was wrong often, but most importantly: I listened and learned about the care, genetics, and approved practices before I began breeding geckos. Even these days, I still make errors, typos, and I refrain from entering subjects that I will not be helpful to, (especially dominant genetics because I am beginning with recessive genes in my first breeding season).
5) Even though I am a beginner, I spent the necessary money to buy 6 genetically-known ("quality") geckos. I am a "bargain shopper" and I bought all 6 for $300, shipped....just a few dollars more than the pet-store price for "genetically unknown, health unknown geckos). Other than that, I am simply paying attention to details and taking necessary precations as needed.
I just posted this to "clear the air" on where I stand with my own "opinions" and advice. If you want to use any of my advice, it is already listed in my previous posts. I simply ask that you sell any of these hatchlings as clearly labeled "pet geckos" because you were confused about who the mothers are AND your females have received sperm from 2 (or more) males.
Not really new. Group breeding is usually done with one male and multiple females so as long as you know which one laid the eggs you can determine the genetic back-round. And most females lay roughly six clutches of two or more eggs (so 12 or more per season) So eight female could give you 96 or more babies. If you have no space for Separating your breeding group what the heck are you going to do with 96 hatchlings?
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