leo evolution

[daveim]

This is just my opinion, not the opinion of a professional or something scientifically proven:
Leopard geckos are not naturally social, and I am aware of that. They live singly in remote regions of the Great Thar Desert, and are nomadic in nature. However, leopard geckos in the US pet trade are not natural. Almost all of the leopard geckos in the US have been bred in captivity, in small areas and many times in groups, for so many generations it would be impossible to trace back their' lineage. Since most leopard geckos breed for the first time at around 1.5-2 years of age, possibly as early as 1 year of age, the length of a generation of leopard geckos may be up to 1/20th of the length of a human generation. Humans went from Homo Heidelbergensis to Homo Sapiens in about 160,000 years, so, theoretically, leopard geckos can evolve into another entire species in as little as 80,000 years. However, through intense selective breeding, we have split leopard geckos into so many whacky morphs that have nothing in their appearance to their ancestors that is remotely similar. You wouldn't even think that they are of the same species. That proves that it takes even less time for them to evolve, although in only one set of chromosomes. And we're talking about behavioral evolution, not evolution into another species. So compare them to the behavioral evolution humans have experienced in only 1000 years. Think about it. That means that it would take less than 50 years for a strain of leopard geckos to evolve that lives in groups of more than one gecko, when you take into consideration every factor that has appeared in the last 100 years.

 

[fender120993]

i guess that makes sense. but i dont you could erase all natural instinct of social interaction in a mere 50 years? remember that evolution is based on mutations, not traits aquired(i.e. if you hold them from a young age until they get used to you.) letting them get used to you wont pass on to their offspring, unless it was a genetic mutation that made them friendlier. so in essence, they can't really evolve in that short of time. you are just seeing aquired traits because they are held so early.


thank god for high school biology.

 

[daveim]

But there are behavioral "mutations". If a leopard gecko is kept in a colony and that colony does better than it would if they were individuals, the colony is going to stay a colony after a couple generations. And if the colony is split up, the individuals are likely to form colonies if possible because that is what they know. Another human comparison: humans used to live in small bands of 3-7 people. During the ice age, a few groups lived together and they survived as compared to the small bands which didn't. This also created specialists, humans who were good at one activity instead of generalists. This way of living then reached other people, who began to do the same. So, it is possible.

 

[fender120993]

dave, but they arent born to know to colonize. they are tought as a jouvenile to colonize, therefore it is an aquired mutation. it doesnt physically cahnge your DNA. do you think babies have instinct to be a specialist? they aquire this trait.


it is only evolution when they have instinct to group up. when their genetic info tells them too, not what they see their parents doing.



evolution takes thousands of years.


and pertaining to your human example, once again they werent born knowing to group. they were once individual and "tried out" grouping and found that it worked. it didnt change their DNA

 

[Lena]

Evolution suggests that there is some sort of natural selection and adaptation involved. Not to mention, evolution could be measured in terms of centuries or millenia.. It just depends on how great a change you're looking for.. There's variations and mutations popping up every day in the wild. Certain color morphs of certain animals that are effective could dominate a region in as little as 10 years. (I.E. Peppered Moths.. The famous biology class example. )

This is selective breeding.. We're picking them for what we like, not what's naturally best for them.

 

[fender120993]

yes thats true lena. but they still can't pass on learned social traits.

 

[Lena]

yes thats true lena. but they still can't pass on learned social traits.

I agree 100%. I don't think there are quite as many people breeding for personality traits anyway..

By the way, I couldn't think of the word yesterday.. The word for it is domestication.. Not evolution.

 

[DarthGekko]

Leopard geckos live in colonies in the wild as well as on their own. On page 15 of The Herptoculture of Leopard Geckos, Tremper writes "Minton (1966) mentioned that leopard geckos tend to live in dense colonies." There is more on this page about this. As far as evolution goes, this has already occured (captive evolution)with line breeding, color morphs etc. Most of these color morphs would cause a Leopard Gecko in the wild to lose his/her life and would be considered an adverse advance in evolution, possibly leading to a reduction in numbers and of course extiction. Some evolutionary traits have occured that may enhance the chances of survival. A prime example of this is the Giant gene which has enhanced the size of the Leopard Gecko and can be produced in the Super or Homozygeous form. This gene may make for heartier generations in the wild that are stronger more efficient insectivores. I see your point about learned behavior and evolution. To make this happen you would have to breed the "smartest" leo's together and live long enough to record the results Interesting theory. I must say though that it may take longer than you think. Look at the evolution of man. Scientists still can't figure out the missing link........