Leo Not Eating for 2 Weeks

[Kariosus]

I am posting on behalf of my sister, who owns a male leopard gecko named Kahvu (just over two years old, maybe 2.5?)

Is it normal for leos to sometime just... simply stop eating for days on end? Because Kahvu seems completely fine despite his complete loss of appetite. My sister is very concerned about his change in eating behaviour and is planning to take him to a vet ASAP. In the meantime, any suggestions/insight on this problem would be greatly appreciated.

This is how he's looking right now, despite not eating for 13 days;
View attachment 57588


__________________________________ Appetite Problem Details

- appetite loss (does not eat at all for days); began at beginning of May / end of April
- for example, he ate 5 meal worms 13 days ago (has not eaten anything since May 11th)
- tried to offer him meal worms, wax worms, chicken flavoured babyfood (last resort), still has no interest in food
- previously Kahvu was content to eat up to 10 mealworms a day (in a dish)
- used to be fed crickets (on sand no less) by previous owner (maybe Kahvu desires crickets and got tired of worms?)
- Kahvu digs a lot (indication that maybe "he" is actually a "she"?) , is still very active, climbs
- He mostly stays on the cold side of his tank, in his cold hide
- Kahvu is very, very fat; lots of fat in the tail as well; doesn't appear to be sick or malnourished
- is housed on sand (was on sand since previous owner), has warm hide, warm/moist hide, and cold hide
- temperature gradient of 98 degrees to 70 degrees, heat pad on underside of tank
- still poops (3 poops within 7-10 days) -- there is a concern of possible impaction
- 1 weird poop (big, long, white; potentially digested shed skin? Or possible regurgitation?)
- losing 1 gram of weight per day for 5 days, now is at a steady weight of 57 grams

 

[OnlineGeckos]

If you are lucky, he's simply in the mood and chose to stop eating. Male leopard geckos can go through this during the breeding season. But since you indicate you aren't sure if it's a he or she, then sure if it's a she, then she may be ovulating. It's quite normal for female leopard geckos to ovulate during this time of the year. If you take a picture of the belly and the underside of the tail, we can probably help you sex the gecko and determine whether the gecko is ovulating or not.

But, one of the reasons I'm always against using sand is that when something strange like this happens, you always have in the back of your mind that the gecko could be impacted. As long as you use sand, you can't really rule that out. I'm not sure what people's fascination is with sand, but leopard geckos don't live on sand, they don't burrow into sand, and they don't walk well on sand. I would recommend swapping sand out for slate or ceramic tiles. They'll do much better on tiles, and you have zero impaction risk. Not to mention it'll be cleaner for the gecko, and easier to clean for you.

As for your temperature, I would lower your hot side temperature to 90-95. 98 is quite hot, I find my geckos not liking anything at or above 95.

If he/she looks well fed, isn't losing much weight at all, and is still pooping, then there's a good chance your gecko's just going through ovulation (if it's a she), or just in the mood (if it's a he).

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I would suggest filling this out: http://geckoforums.net/f130-health-medications/70912.htm

~Maggot

 

[Kariosus]

If you are lucky, he's simply in the mood and chose to stop eating. Male leopard geckos can go through this during the breeding season. But since you indicate you aren't sure if it's a he or she, then sure if it's a she, then she may be ovulating. It's quite normal for female leopard geckos to ovulate during this time of the year. If you take a picture of the belly and the underside of the tail, we can probably help you sex the gecko and determine whether the gecko is ovulating or not.

If this is either case, how long does this usually last for? I've been asking my sister to get a photo of Kahvu's underside but she is worried about flipping him on his back, as she has heard they have trouble breathing like that. If I can get him in a clear container I'll get a photo that way I guess.

But, one of the reasons I'm always against using sand is that when something strange like this happens, you always have in the back of your mind that the gecko could be impacted. As long as you use sand, you can't really rule that out. I'm not sure what people's fascination is with sand, but leopard geckos don't live on sand, they don't burrow into sand, and they don't walk well on sand. I would recommend swapping sand out for slate or ceramic tiles. They'll do much better on tiles, and you have zero impaction risk. Not to mention it'll be cleaner for the gecko, and easier to clean for you.

Yeah, sand has always been that looming presence in the back of our minds. It's so suprising that pet stores even recommend sand; when I learned that a leo's natural habitat has next to no sand at all, I was pretty annoyed that sand was made out to be a leo's natural substrate. My sis and I both plan to change our leos over to something more ideal; the worry about sand is just awful.

As for your temperature, I would lower your hot side temperature to 90-95. 98 is quite hot, I find my geckos not liking anything at or above 95.

The strange thing is, one day the temperature of the heating pad shot up a few degrees (it used to be in the low 90s). The only heat pads we have ever come across are like this one; Exo Terra : Heat Wave Desert / Terrarium Substrate Heater . These heaters are unable to have the temperature adjusted in any way, as far as I am aware :/
Would you happen to know of any reliable heating products? Seems like the kind we're using isn't ideal for leos.

If he/she looks well fed, isn't losing much weight at all, and is still pooping, then there's a good chance your gecko's just going through ovulation (if it's a she), or just in the mood (if it's a he).

Alrighty, thanks for the insight! I really appreciate it =) I hope its just either one of these cases.

 

[Kariosus]

I would suggest filling this out: http://geckoforums.net/f130-health-medications/70912.htm

~Maggot

Ah, sorry, I didn't see that. I'll now know to look at all the sticky threads before posting (I usually do). I'll definatley fill that out.

 

[Kariosus]

On a side note, I recently had changed over the mealworms to a new container, and the next day I saw a bunch of white/beige specks all over the inside of it. Mites. This has got me pretty freaked out; who knows how long they've been kicking around. I've been doing my own research on these buggers, they seem to be grain mites, and are harmless to leos. Is this true? They must have come from the Fluker's cricket diet, there seems to be a bunch all inside that container; hard to tell though; they're not moving (could be dust.. its what I always thought it was before). Either way, I hope I can get rid of these nasty things, and I hope they've done no harm to the geckos.

 

[Kariosus]

And here's the questionnaire filled out by Kahvu's owner;

About your leo:

• Sex: the person I got him from said he was male, but I think he may be a female. I cannot spot any obvious preanal pores or bulges at the base of the tail. He digs a lot too- isn’t digging a female behaviour?
• Age & Weight: about 2-3 years. Right now he is 57grams. His weight about a month ago was 63 grams.
• How long have you owned your leo: about 8 months
• Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend): friend of a friend. He was kept in a juvenile cage barely 30x30cm with no heat source and a snake hide that was too small for him. When I got him I immediately upgraded his living quarters!

A) Health/History

• How often do you handle your leo: Every day to every other day for 5-10 minutes at a time. He is very friendly and whenever I open the tank he will crawl over to see what I am doing. He readily crawls into my hands, I never force him to be handled if he doesn’t want it.
• Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. Spends 95% of time on cool side of tank, thought this was because summer was here and normally it is very cold in my house in winter (around 16-17 degrees Celsius). He usually enjoyed his warm side but rarely goes there now. He used to shed frequently (once a week) and has only shed once in the past month and a half. He has stopped eating. I have tried mealworms, wax worms, and in desperation, a tiny baby-spoonful of organic chicken babyfood. He shows no interest in food at all, and will happily walk towards it, then over it, spilling the worms, and instead crawl into my hands. He is still very active and inquisitive, and likes to climb a lot.
• Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. none known

B) Fecals

• Describe (look any different than normal)3 smaller poops in the last 2 weeks, they have the brown part and the white urate part. Smaller than his normal poops, but otherwise normal looking.

2 and a half weeks ago, I found a REALLY weird looking poop on top of his moist hide. About an inch long (large) and it looked like undigested shed. It may have been a regurgitation. This happened about 5 days after I had managed to get him to eat mealworms two days in a row, 5 each day.

​

• When was the last time he/she went? About 3-4 days ago.

C) Problem

• Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on

Has not been eating. It has been about 14 days since I last got him to eat, and if that wierd poop was actually regurgitation, he hasn’t eaten in about a month. His weight was dropping by a gram a day in early may, but over the last week has leveled out to 57 grams, staying steady. His tail is still very plump and fat, and so is his belly. Still very active and inquisitive, just does NOT want to eat anything. The only herp vet around has a phone line that is ALWAYS busy (I’ve called and called to no avail) with no answering machine service, and no ‘on hold’ functionality either. I just keep getting a message that says ‘USER IS BUSY. PLEASE TRY AGAIN.’ The only way I can contact them is through an email form (which I did) but I did not get a call back. I will try to bug them again.
​

Housing:
A) Enclosure

• Size. large, its about 23 inches long by 19 inches wide by 11 inches high.
• Type (ex. glass tank) glass exoterra tank.
• Type of substrate: Sand. I know! Impaction risks! He was raised on sand since being a baby by his previous owner and had no problems so I thought he would be alright. I only found out about the potential dangers of sand months AFTER I had set up his enclosure.
• Hides, how many, what kind: 3 hides. One dry warm, one moist warm (moss substrate) and one cool dry.

B) Heating

• Heat source: exo terra under tank heater.
• Cage temps (hot side, cool side): hot side: used to be around 93 degrees, now as high as 96-98. Don’t know why the heater is on the fritz, tried unplugging it but my poor gecko would cling to me because he was so cold. It is not adjustable and no pet stores, reptile specialty stores, or reptile expos in my area carry adjustable ones. I’ve left it for now and tried to pile lots of sand in that area to disperse the heat. Cool side is about 70 degrees.
• Method of regulating heat source: None! I’ll unplug it for an hour here and there if I notice it getting too hot. Thats about all I can do.
• What are you using to measure your temps: A dinky exoterra thermometer. The small circular analog kind.
• Do you have any lights (describe): none, just natural sunlight during the day.

C) Cage mates

• How many (males, females): none
• Describe health, or previous problems: n/a

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet

• What you're feeding (how often, how much)

Used to: gutloaded mealworms, 5-8 per day. A couple waxworms once a week, and once a month a horn worm (can’t remember the name, its the smooshy green caterpillar things, really nutrient-filled). Now: nothing! D: he wont eat!
​

• How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect)

I coat them with calcium powder and put them in a small dish. I watch him eat then I remove the dish. I make sure none escape into his tank so he doesnt accidentally eat a mouthful of sand if he decided to go after them.

​

B) Supplements (describe how often)

• What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands)?

zoo-med repti calcium with d3, dust mealworms every time
​

• What are you gut loading food with?

fluker’s high calcium cricket diet + baby carrots, 24/7
​

 

[OnlineGeckos]

If this is either case, how long does this usually last for? I've been asking my sister to get a photo of Kahvu's underside but she is worried about flipping him on his back, as she has heard they have trouble breathing like that. If I can get him in a clear container I'll get a photo that way I guess.

A clear container is definitely the best way to take a picture. That or just stand in front of a mirror, stand the gecko up with belly facing the mirror, that works as well. Ovulation can last for several months during the breeding season, and a typical breeding season can start as early as December, and can end as late as August. Females will ovulate with no set schedule, and will sometimes eat in between ovulation. Not all females will stop eating. As for males, they're just weird, some won't stop eating, some will, and it can last for a few weeks, sometimes a few months.

Exo terra's UTH is known to over/under heat, I would recommend Zoo Med's ReptiTherm, although they can also overheat. If you want peace of mind, get a thermostat. No matter what brand of UTH you get, overheating can happen at anytime. If you have a thermostat, you won't ever have to worry about it overheating as it'll shut the UTH off when temperature gets above a certain threshold. Non-proportional thermostats are cheaper, there's a good one if you search on amazon for Hydrofarm Thermostat. It has digital readings and great reviews, you won't find better at that price range. It'll work great for you if you want peace of mind. A proportional thermostat is of course better but they also cost $100+.

From your questionnaire, I can see that you are missing multivitamin supplements. Plain calcium is not going to be enough, so I would recommend purchasing an all-in-one multivitamin supplement such as Repashy Calcium Plus, or Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3. Both will work well for you, and once you start dusting with multivitamin supplements, you can stop dusting with calcium.

The poop pictured, I've seen gecko poop like that after they shed and ingested their own shed. I've also seen poop like that after a gecko ate waxworms. So as long as you don't keep seeing poop like that, then it's likely a one time thing due to shedding or ingesting waxworms.

Don't forget with sand substrate, it's easy for him to ingest sand while he's shedding, pulling his skins off, rubbing around, and ingesting his skin. So even if you are careful when feeding him, he could still ingest sand on his own.

Lastly mites are a pain. If you've got grain mites infesting your feeder bin, you need to dump the whole colony and start over. It's very hard to control them or reduce them. Once they start growing, they multiply fast. The things that make them grow/breed fast are higher temperature and humidity. They could've come from anything, from the bedding where the mealworms come from, to the things you feed them with that contain oats/wheat bran, etc.. You'll want to track down the source of them, and pretty much switch brands or change the types of bedding/food you use. I had to go through it once back when I bought oats from Target. Then I went and bought oats from a different grocery store, started the colony over, and never seen mites again.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Everything the person above said, plus a few little things:

Digging is something all leos will do if they can. Actually, if they are provided with deep enough substrate, they will dig to forage for food and create some burrows (though they're not true burrowing lizards like skinks). That's one of the reasons I'm a fan of dirt substrates. Of course, females do it in preparation for laying eggs too, but I think they would be doing that in a moister substrate like coco fiber of a humid hide, not sand, as they don't lay their eggs in sand (I don't think).

Definitely need to upgrade your temp stuff. I absolutely agree that you should get a thermostat and have had good luck with Hydrofarms. Also, toss the analog thermomters and pick up some digital ones because the temps you're getting now might be wrong.

Hopefully the sand you have isn't one that is "calcium/vitamin fortified," because that stuff is death in a bag. While I'm not as anti-regular sand as most people are, it's still not something I'd suggest except for someone very experienced, and a gecko that's showing any issues should probably be switched to something else to eliminate all possibilities, even if just paper towel.

If you haven't, I would try crickets. It might not work, but they're a good choice because they're lower in fat and chitin than mealworms, and their movement can help trigger a feeding response. It's at least worth a shot. Though, again, if your gecko isn't losing weight and is still active, you probably needn't be too concerned yet.

~Maggot

 

[Kariosus]

A clear container is definitely the best way to take a picture. That or just stand in front of a mirror, stand the gecko up with belly facing the mirror, that works as well.

We put Khavu in a container and took photos that way, so my sister will post them soon. The dispute over whether Khavu is a girl or boy will end, I hope xD;

My sister went ahead and bought a Zoo Med ReptiTemp Rheostat, but the UTH plugs just won't plug into it at all. I am baffled, I fiddled with the thing for a good 10 minutes, they simply will not plug in. I am considering getting the Hydrofarm Thermostat, seeing all the good reviews for it!

I got the vitamins, Zoo Med's Reptivite. However, at the store the employee was arguing with me that I should get the reptivite without D3. I'm not too sure about the whole debate on the subject.

To be honest, it never occured to be that a leo could eat sand while ingesting their own shed; all I ever thought was that a leo would only ingest a lot of sand if their food was on sand. Simply, a newbie's mistake and inexperience. I definitely want Khavu and my own leo, Ghidorah, off of sand, but I've been having a lot of trouble figuring out what set up would work best without having to buy a complete new set of heat sources (my UTH is a substrate heater, so paper towel gets much much too hot). I've been thinking repticarpet, apparently those can work well with UTHs as long as you layer them enough so that the temperature is appropriate.

I dumped all the infested containers. I've kept everything as dry as possible, its hard to tell what is a mite and what is not, especially when there are only a few kicking around. I hope the dust specks I've seen are just dust specks; they weren't moving. I can only hope that there are no more mites >_<

 

[Kariosus]

Everything the person above said, plus a few little things:
Hopefully the sand you have isn't one that is "calcium/vitamin fortified," because that stuff is death in a bag. While I'm not as anti-regular sand as most people are, it's still not something I'd suggest except for someone very experienced, and a gecko that's showing any issues should probably be switched to something else to eliminate all possibilities, even if just paper towel.

If you haven't, I would try crickets. It might not work, but they're a good choice because they're lower in fat and chitin than mealworms, and their movement can help trigger a feeding response. It's at least worth a shot. Though, again, if your gecko isn't losing weight and is still active, you probably needn't be too concerned yet.

Nope, just plain regular sand. Khavu used to be on some sort of vitamin sand, and it stank. He has been on regular sand ever since my sister obtained him.

We tried crickets. Khavu just stared at it, looked a little interested, and then turned his head away and walked off. No luck! =P However my leo, Ghidorah, enjoyed the crickets. Excited tail-wiggle and all.