Leo not eating, tail getting thin, please help

[hatlerbratton]

My Leopard Gecko‬ is not eating. Her tail is really getting thin - it's always been nice and thick and when she hibernates (not really hibernating per se, but when it gets cooler she eats less) I've never been too concerned, since she has plenty of fat and nutrition in the tail. I'm concerned about her now though - she let several crickets die in her cage and I just tried feeding her superworms, which she's always loved, and she just turned her nose up at them. I took her out and she didn't seem at all lethargic, so I don't think she's sick. We don't have a reptile vet here, at least not that I know of (I live about a hundred miles from the nearest city), and the only live foods I can give her are crickets and mealworms or supers. No wax worms locally, and they die by the time I get them home if I get 'em in Lancaster (although she doesn't like them anyway). She hasn't shed recently - her coloring isn't pre-shed pale, but it's not as bright as it has been in the past.

We've had her for three years and when my husband got her I think she was at least a year old. Pet Smart said she was about four months, but now that we know more about Leos, she had to be nearly fully grown. Please don't slam us for getting her from Pet Smart- I know they're not the greatest place, but she's been just fine until now. We did get another from PS (different store, different time) that failed to thrive and died about five months after we got her. Unfortunately, she started off with tail thinning too, and I don't want the same thing to happen to Spike.

How long do they usually live in captivity? Is there anything else I can feed her other than the obvious? Should I just wait it out and keep trying to feed her? I can't imagine she'd let herself starve to death...I know she's a picky eater, but that's ridiculous. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[DrCarrotTail]

If you could fill out the following info folks could provide better advice:

http://geckoforums.net/f130-health-medications/70912.htm

Do you have a picture of her? If she is super thin she may not be able to be saved without immediate veterinary care. If she still has a bit of fat in her tail there may be a few tests you can send off to rule out some possibilities. Did the second gecko you had that passed come into contact with her? There are diseases that they can transmit to one another which is why quarantining new animals away from healthy ones is so important.

I'd never knock anyone for picking out a nice pet at a pet store. Lots of folks have leos from pet stores that are perfectly healthy and happy

 

[hatlerbratton]

Thanks Lisa. Her tail still has a bulge in it, but not nearly what it usually is. The answers are below...as well as I can answer the questions, anyway! Spike has always been healthy and, like I said, she does tend to eat less during the cooler months. I live in the desert, so it doesn't get terribly cold other than about two weeks during January, and she has a lamp that gives her ample heat, so the "hibernation" is just a slowing down, really. I'm just concerned that her tail won't get her through the lean months. The second gecko did have contact with her, but it's been over a year since she died and the substrate has been replaced and all plants, etc, have been cleaned thoroughly.

About my leo:
- Female
- Roughly 4 years old
- We have had her three years this month
- Got her from Pet Smart

A) Health/History
- I handle her when she wants to be handled, which isn't often - today she walked right onto my hand, but I try not to stress her into being held
- She doesn't seem to be acting any different today than in the past - she's social when she wants to be, walks all over my hands/arms/chest, not lethargic at all
- No history of health problems at all.

B) Fecals
- Not any different than normal
- Hard to say when she went last (she poops in a covered section of the cage and I didn't check today)

C) Problem
- She acts hungry but then doesn't eat when presented with food. Her tail has been progressively getting thinner over the past couple of weeks but she was still eating - in the past week she hasn't eaten at all. Today I tried feeding her dusted superworms and she didn't want to have anything to do with them. I also saw that she let about five crickets die (sometimes she lets them walk around for a day or so before eating them).

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Glass tank, 20L. Sand mat substrate - has been on carpet, never actual sand. Two hides, one on hot side, one on cool side. Two fake plants and one "log" with holes on four sides.

B) Heating
- Overhead heating source (red flood). 88-92 on hot side, 78 on cool side. Slide on heat lamp cord to adjust. Temps are measured with in-tank thermostats. No white lights other than ambient in room which are rarely on.

C) Cage mates
- None. Shared cage very briefly (roughly 2 weeks) with another Leo who failed to thrive, died 16 months ago (I separated them a month or so before she died). Had no issues until recently.

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- Hand fed mealworms or crickets - usually eats at least one or two immediately. She's a fickle eater, loses interest in one and I switch to the other. LOVES superworms (ate five pretty much instantly when I fed them to her first).

B) Supplements (describe how often)
- I don't have the supplement brand, but there's a small saucer of vitamin D/Calcium supplement in her cage and I have been dusting the worms/crickets with the calcium.

 

[laurahlove]

Just a few things to suggest, you need a moist hide. I would put it in the middle, this helps with shedding.
Under tank heating, Leos need belly heat! No matter what lighting systems or light, they need belly heat to digest their food.
I would also suggest trying other feeders, such as phoenix worms, roaches, waxworms, (not too many, these are fatty) ect. Also you could try just leaving a small dish or dusted mealworms in her tank, see if she will eat those.
Do you have calcium with D3 and without? Also, you need vitamins.


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[hatlerbratton]

Thanks Laura! What kind of vitamins other than D? I was told that UTH can burn them since their skin is sensitive and thin on their bellies. She's never had an issue before, but I will look into it. As for the phoenix worms and wax worms, she doesn't like wax worms and I've never heard of the other - but I live in a very remote location and can't buy a large variety of live foods (and she won't eat dead ones). Mealworms, Supers and Crickets are really the only things our local pet store carries. We have a plethora of cockroaches...but I'd hate to feed them to her if they're caught wild, you never know what they might track into her cage. There are Pet Smart and Pet Co stores about an hour and a half away, but the last time I tried that the wax worms died before I could get them home. I've done the mealworms in a dish thing before...and they either scoot out of the enclosure and hide under the mat or she ignores them and they turn into beetles or die. I've had moist hides before and she never pays any attention to them. She's only had two bad sheds in the past and both times she's gotten the majority of the skin off - the rest of the skin was taken off by Mommy (yours truly) with patience and tweezers. I'm willing to try anything at this point, so I will be putting a moist hide in the cage somewhere.

 

[laurahlove]

There's just a bottle like the calcium, and it says vitamin supplement its a powder, and you do the shake and bake the same as the calcium.
The UTH, I believe you are thinking of heat rocks. Uth don't get too hot, but you can buy a thermostat to control the temperature from getting too hot. But I've never had that problem
What substrate do you use by the way?
Phoenix worms also go by calci worms, because they have a high level of calcium. I use them to feed my gecko with MBD.
Yeah, do not use caught roaches, lol. You can order some good feeders online for cheap and have them delivered to your door alive.
They make special mealworm dishes for 2 or 3 dollars at pet smart and they cannot get out of those, I love them.
What did you put in the moist hide? I recommend buying moss from pet smart and lightly misting it, my Leos love it.


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[laurahlove]

Whoops, I see you use a sand mat now

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[hatlerbratton]

Yep, moist moss is what I had in the hide. I haven't had one in there for a good long time - like I said, she didn't really pay much attention to it, so I stopped putting it in there. I'll start up again though - you never know, it might make her happy and in turn increase her appetite. They can be such moody little things.

 

[hatlerbratton]

I just looked online and I can get Phoenix Worms shipped to me. Unfortunately temps here are still 85+ during the day so that will have to wait until later in the month. I'm going to Lancaster on Friday so I will head to Pet Smart to see what they might have - I can take a cooler with me to keep the temp down. I'll also look into a UTH - yes, you're right, I was thinking of heat rocks. I did have one of the steep-sided dishes for mealworms and they still got out...go figure. Thanks for all your help!

 

[DrCarrotTail]

How are you measuring your temps? is 88-92 the temp on the floor or the air?

 

[laurahlove]

Glad I could be of help! I hope some thing I suggested will help your little buddy get better you should most definitely get a uth though, if you were to get anything for her.

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[hatlerbratton]

How are you measuring your temps? is 88-92 the temp on the floor or the air?

It's the air temp, as measured by the thermostat. The hot hide is right there and she spends most of her time inside of it.

 

[hatlerbratton]

Glad I could be of help! I hope some thing I suggested will help your little buddy get better you should most definitely get a uth though, if you were to get anything for her.

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I definitely will! My husband thinks I'm overreacting and that she will be fine - and I hope he's right (I do tend to overreact but don't tell him I said so... ) but yes, I will take your suggestions and keep you posted! I will see if I can get a pic of her and post it here.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

The air temp in your tank should be closer the low to mid 80s on the hot side. In order to digest properly leos need a spot around 90 on the floor but the hot air temps might be running her metabolism on high and causing her to lose weight faster than she should. I'd suggest getting a probe thermometer and an under tank heater that is regulated with either a thermostat or cooled with a dimmer. I'd also try to have several hides that allow her to be 100% in the dark and hidden around the tank at different temperatures so she has some choice (if she doesn't already of course )

 

[laurahlove]

I definitely will! My husband thinks I'm overreacting and that she will be fine - and I hope he's right (I do tend to overreact but don't tell him I said so... ) but yes, I will take your suggestions and keep you posted! I will see if I can get a pic of her and post it here.

Noo, don't think of it as over reacting. You need to do everything in your power to get her back to eating!

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[hatlerbratton]

Thanks for the suggestions! I lowered the tank temp - haven't been able to get out of town to get the UTH or alternate food, but she did eat three supers yesterday! Yay! I'll be getting some more today (who knew that refrigeration doesn't work the same with supers as it does mealies?) and hopefully she'll eat more. BTW, do either of you have any knowledge of whether or not leos eat/crave/enjoy fruit and veggies? I have a friend who says her son's leo ate fruit in addition to live food, but I've never heard of that. I know that other lizards eat it so it's possible...any thoughts?

 

[Dinosaur!]

Lepard geckos are strictly insectivores. They get all of their plant nutrition and such through eating bugs that were fed fruits and veggies Perhaps your friends gecko was an african fat-tail gecko? I know that a lot of people get the two species confused out here where i live, so maybe they have one of those and not a leo... African fat tails eat fruit and insects as far as im aware anyway

 

[hatlerbratton]

Good news - don't know if anyone is monitoring this anymore, it's been a while...but Spike is perfectly healthy. Her tail is nice and fat - and she's back to her old self. The change? Dubia Roaches. SHE LOVES THEM. I'm getting them mostly online but the pet store in town carries them occasionally. Yay for 36% protein!