Leopard Died- Trying to figure out why. Help if you can.

[supremegecko]

A month ago, I shipped a female leopard gecko to a fellow. I checked the 8 month old out before shipping as usual and did not see any issues with the gecko.
Two weeks after shipment, the gentleman e-mailed to let me know the leopard was eating nicely but seemed to have a cloudy right eye. I suggested this might be a shed coming on or just passed and that he may want to isolate the gecko in a deli cup with moist paper towels for a time to help the shed.

Earlier this week, he wrote and indicted the gecko died. This is always hard for me and certainly disappointing to the customer. I assured him that I would fully refund or credit the money but what is more important is trying to figure out what could have caused the death so we can prevent it next time.

Here are a couple important points about the gecko:
- some type of eye issue. The fellow sent a picture and the eye was a bit cloudy but not drastic and did not have any discharge
- gecko fed up to the last 4 days
- shed was found about a week before death as regurgitated clump
- feces was fine and regular
- gecko spent last day sleeping on the warm side of the enclosure, slept in hide during day and prowled around before last day
- it was found dead, ON ITS BACK
Here are a couple important points about its enclosure and handling
- 10 gallon tank
- Temps 87 on warm side by heat pad & 60 Watt heat emitter
- reptile sand used as substrate
- moist hide and water dish included
- no young kids and minimal handling

Finally, here are my thoughts-
I don't think the gecko was ill as it would take more than a month for some type of disease to fatally impact the gecko's health. I thought the problem might be some type of physical trauma but was told the enclosure did not contain any large rocks and there was, again minimal handling.
The sand is certainly an issue but with the defecation being regular I don't think this was the cause. Also, impaction would not happen this quickly in my opinion.
The eye issue seems to be a symptom rather than a cause, or it just could be a coincidence as a result of the shed.
The thought that the gecko was found on its back seemed to point to something that happened suddenly- some exposure to a poison or possibly overheating. The setup of the enclosure and the fact that he used all new decor, hide, dishes seems to indicate this probably was not caused by poison.
The most probably cause that I can see is that the heat pad and emitter was too warm. I wonder if this would cause the gecko to convulse and turn up-side-down.

If you can see something I do not, or have other questions, PLEASE contribute.

 

[Surf_420]

did the owner always keep the heat emitter on?

in past experiences those things put off alot more heat than bargained for.

sorry to hear about this, it really sux, i know cause i had 2 doa's a couple months back.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

What a tragedy... I'm so sorry! Since sand was the substrate, impaction could be indicated.

 

[david13]

but feces were fine and regular..

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

When a geckos dies on it's back, it means it suffered excruciating pain, or some sort of seizure.

 

[david13]

that makes sense..i never knew gecko has seizures though..i never really thought of that

 

[rubym]

Sure it wasn't from a heat stroke? Even the small heat emitters put off quite a bit of heat. We used them for our Uros and they like temps 120-130 on hot side.

 

[PacHerp]

Sure it wasn't from a heat stroke? Even the small heat emitters put off quite a bit of heat. We used them for our Uros and they like temps 120-130 on hot side.

I too agree that it could have been caused by some sort of husbandry issue.

 

[supremegecko]

I agree that if the issue were impaction, the feces would show some sign of additional material and also might be irregular. The owner indicted that this was not the case.

I also agree that the heat emitter has a high probability of bein the cause. As stated, the gecko was on its back and unfortunately died a dramatic death which could have been caused by heat stroke. The emitter was added sometime during the month.

 

[david13]

i would ask the owner what the temperature of the hot side was..

 

[fallen_angel]

I am so terribly sorry to hear about this! My vote is on the heat emitter as well.

Surf_420, what happened to cause your geckos to be d.o.a., if you don't mind me asking?

 

[LadyGecko]

I am so sorry to read about what has happened to one of your babies

Why do people insist on using overhead heating in the place of a uth?

Most light bulbs or heat emitters are way too hot for a 10 gal tank and the use of an overhead heat source does not allow for a heat gradient in such a small space
If they have an extremely cold room that the gecko was in during the winter-that may have been why the gecko was OK for the first month that the new owner had it

Unfortunately the end result when it gets warmer in the house is one dead reptile

Just curious-what type of thermometer was he using to measure the temperatures?
Was he using a stick on one or a dial type one or a digital one with a with a probe?

I don't think that the temps that he gave you sound all that accurate

I won't even comment on use of the reptile sand

just my .02

Sandy

PS-I think that replacing the gecko or refunding their money
is an extremely generous gesture

 

[supremegecko]

i would ask the owner what the temperature of the hot side was..

Temperature on the warm side was about 87.

A couple of new notes from the fellow-
He used a ESU digital reptile thermometer with prode to get the temperatures.
The heat pad was a reptile specific UTH.
The pad was used for three weeks then the heat emitter replaced.
At this time, the gecko started laying on the warm side both day and night with her eyes closed. He notes that at this time, the gecko turned brown and still ate but became finiky. He attributed this to shedding (we know though that geckos turn pale when shedding).

I hate to guess at the cause but it seems like the clues are pointing out an issue with the heat emitter. The timing between the switch and the change in behavior has to be more than coincidence.

Again, any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[david13]

hmmmm, was the temp. still 87 when the heat emitter was there?
I would think a leo would know to go to the cool side if it is too hot...inless the whole tank was too hot

 

[supremegecko]

...I would think a leo would know to go to the cool side if it is too hot...inless the whole tank was too hot

Exactly. I think it would be extremely difficult to provide a warm and a cool side in a 10 gallon setup.

 

[fallen_angel]

So the gecko turned brown? I wonder if that means his skin was burning?

 

[supremegecko]

After another e-mail to the owner, he stated that it wasn't really dark as much as not bright orange like it was before the shed. So, to answer your point, I think the color was just muted as normal with a shedding leopard.

 

[Stevie]

In my opinion, the darkening of the skin and the immediately seeking the hot spot of the gecko indicates that it has been to cold for a while. This surprises me, because 30 C (87 F) should be enough for the gecko. The use of sand doesn't bother me, because the stool was fine; impaction just isn't the case here. Regurgitated skin reminds me of a gastrointestinal parasite or infection of some kind though...

If the immunesystem of the gecko is damaged due to stress (shipping) or lower temperature (colour and behaviour of the gecko) some parasites are known to strike, but I never seen it they kill that fast (4 days?).

I think we have to except that this gecko died of reasons unknown. The problem could be a birthdefect, an accident, seisure, stroke or everything imaginable. The best way to find out what caused the death of a pet is to autopsy it. So bring it to the vet and you'll know. In this case that won't be possible, but for the next time.....

Greets,

Stevie

 

[david13]

yes, there are tons of possibilities, and a lot of questions to ask the receiver.
good luck

 

[Stevie]

I was thinking about it all day.... I had a few leos with a clouded eye. According to the vet this was caused by an inflammation of a salivary gland. I cleaned the eyes a few time, and it recovered perfectly. This kept me thinking of the next (pure hypothetical) scenario:

Due to cause unknown, one of the salivary gland gets infected. Because the animal was stressed by the shipping and low temperature in the tank, the immunesystem wasn't able to restore the inflammation. The infection kept spreading to the throat and different cavities in the head of the gecko, causing a seisure/blooding/blood cloth, which led to the death of the poor gecko.

It's just on of the scenarios that explains all the symptoms mentioned, including the behaviour, clouded eye and regurgitation. Shame we'll never know for sure.

Greets,

Stevie