Lethargic, Rolling Gecko acting Neuro

[ResidualHaunt]

My gecko has been going downhill fast since last night (that I noticed) and I would really appreciate any insight anyone has into why. I'm stumped and very troubled.


First, some background info.


I have a bell albino leopard gecko 7-8 months old that's a good healthy weight (dont know exact in grams) I got him around 4 months ago.
His poos have looked normal, though I have noted he hasn't gone since he last ate two days ago.
I feed him mealworms, superworms and roaches, all well gut-loaded, and while he isn't the most enthusiastic eater he does eat and usually clears his dish out over time. I offer food every other to every 2 days.
I last fed him two days ago, around 6 mealworms and he only ate three.
I keep him in a divided 20 gallon long beside another male his own age. It is securely divided and they don't appear to be aware of their neighbor.
His temps are between 88-92 on the warm side using a UTH. I use non-adhesive shelfliner for 'substrate'. Nothing loose. He has a humid hide with spagmoss and paper towel and a cool hide, water dish, calcium dish, and food dish with calcium and vitamins. I shake it up to cover the worms every mealworm feeding.


This gecko has always been a bit of a spaz. I don't know if that has anything to do with the problems he's displaying now, but I thought it worth mentioning. He acts like I'm going to kill him every time I go to pick him up and gets very worked up when handled. I have gone very slow with him and used the same gentling methods I used on my other leos who all dont mind if not enjoy being handled, but not this dude. A month or so ago there was an incident where I was holding him at my desk trying to get him used to it still and he ended up bolting off the side of my arm to fall the 3~' onto the carpet, then darted under the nearby couch. I had to chase him around a bit under there and eventually cornered him against the wall...where he then proceeded to stiffen up, breathe heavily and sort of flip onto his side. I thought he was having a seizure at first. At the time I attributed it to shock. I caught him, put him back in his cage and let him be and he was fine the next day and all the following days that I could tell.


Last night I went in to take him out for a few minutes and he was very lethargic and stiff-bodied. He looked very alarmed by me, but just kind of curled up and and flattened himself out. He let me pick him up and turn his body around...something he never would have tolerated normally. I put him back and let him be then went to bed shortly after.


This morning I went in to check on him and he didn't react at all to me when I picked up his hide and poked at him. I picked him up and he immediately tensed up and spun over in my hand to lay on his back. I righted him, set him back down in his tank, and he spun onto his back again. I tried getting him to walk but he would just sort of step, fall forward and then drag himself. After coming online and reading that impaction could sometimes cause the rolling, I checked his belly...but it is normal colored and flat. I did attempt a warm soak a little bit ago but this only seemed to stress him and worsen the behaviors. He began to roll several times and breathe in a very labored manner. I have repeatedly had to go in and flip him back onto his stomach tonight after finding him flat on his back inside his hide or in the middle of his cage, his limbs contorted. It's very troubling to see and is happening very quickly with no causes that I can see...


Does anyone have ANY ideas what might be wrong? I had a gecko with a head tumor that acted very similarly before she had seizures and eventually died...but he has no tumors or any visible injuries. I will call for a vet appointment tomorrow, but I know the reptile vet is only in on certain days and it could be another day before I get an appointment. If it's purely neurological would there even be a point, though?

I took a short video of the behaviors. Viewer discresion advised, it is a little sad to see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oD4Q9KRfVU

Thanks for any help you can offer!

 

[Thorgecko707]

He could have brain damage from the fall or a broken spine. The way he is trying to walk stiff and curled to the left makes me think broken bones or brain. Xray would say yes or no. I hope the vet can help.

 

[Kristi23]

I've had bells that acted very spazzy. I realized that they just didn't see well. However the rest of that sounds really bad. I would definitely take it to a vet to get checked out. Being on his back for any length of time is very bad.

 

[ResidualHaunt]

Thanks for the responses guys

I guess it could have been from the fall...though it wasn't a very major fall and he landed on his belly not his head. That, and, as I've said, he's acted fine since then, climbing around his cage, walking fine... It was over a month ago. I can't rule it out, I'd just be surprised any injury would have taken this long to pop up and with such severity...

Bad news though :| The vet's office closed early today...I just barely caught them after business hours. I was told their 'one' reptile vet had already left for the day and that she wouldn't be in until Friday. I'm worried about it taking so long. Every time I go in to check on him I'm worried I'll find him dead.

It doesn't appear he's sleeping, also...I can't know for sure I don't watch him 24/7 obviously but every time I go in to check on him his eyes are wide wide open. Before, 8 times out of 10 he'd be dozing. His pupils do dilate though so I guess that's promising...

 

[Kristi23]

I really hope he makes it until the vet visit. Please keep us updated.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

Even really short falls that wouldn't necessarily hurt something 90% of the time can just hit wrong and do lots of damage. You see it with people all the time, just bad luck. he does look more neurologically impaired than physically hurt in your video though. Is there any chance his cage got really hot? What is the air temperature? Is his UTH acting normally? Other than heat, my only other thought would be that he got poisoned somehow. Did you recently have any pesticides sprayed? Change anything he was eating? Move a new piece of furniture into the room? Cook something strange? I'm just fishing but I might consider some things like that just in case. If the other boy is acting normal it probably isn't anything in the air or that they both had and localized to his cage and space.

So sorry to hear he's hurt and the vet can't see you until tomorrow!! Fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of what's going on and he starts to improve soon!!

 

[ResidualHaunt]

Thanks so much for the response

The temperatures have been ok I think... There was a bit of a heat spike over the weekend due to the warmer weather but things were adjusted and it's back in range. The ambient room temp is about 68-72...not sure what it is inside the tank though. He does have plenty of room to escape the UTH.
As for poisons...I can't think of anything obvious. I feed insects I raised myself, no pesticides...though I can't say if there is any on the produce I gutload with. Still I would think all my geckos would be effected if it were that. I did spray some carpet stain remover in the room a couple days before this happened. It had some potent fumes, but I only let it sit a couple minutes before scrubbing it up. I guess it's possible he could have had a bad reaction to it Though the other four in the same room are acting normal. Then again he's always been my delicate little flower twink gecko ;;

I really hope we come to the bottom of it too...though I admit I'm worried the vet will just tell me "I dont know what's wrong exactly, here's some antibiotics." Is there a way they can test if it was something toxic? Unfortunately he hasn't been eating and I don't have any fresh fecals to take.

He hasn't been flipping over as much last night or today, just once or twice in the span of that time, but he barely moves and looks very physically tired. He has been scooting on and off his heat mat though, still reacts to light and seems to 'see' me. I gave him another warm soak last night, just to see if it would stimulate something, but it seemed to make his behaviors worse. At one point he froze up, opened his mouth wide and stopped breathing for a couple seconds, then rolled and went limp again. I thought I'd lost him then but he's being a trooper and hanging in there...

 

[DrCarrotTail]

I wouldn't worry about a fecal. This sounds like it's almost certainly neurological. There's no way to really test for toxins. Even if he was huge like a dog or cat it would be difficult if not impossible to since many times the toxin does the damage and exits the system before the test can be done. These guys are so small it often hard to get a large enough sample of blood to check organ function but it may be a possibility if the vet thinks it would give you a clue. My guess would be the vet would put him on an antiinflammatory to possibly help if there is swelling or bleeding in his brain somehow and hope for the best.

Temperatures can cause serious neurological issues if they get high enough. An hour or two over 105 degree body temperature may begin to cause damage. Many times tanks can heat up even faster than the surrounding room if they're using a heater or light that's not on a thermostat and/or next to a window since they're largely enclosed. I sure hope this didn't happen but since you mentioned a temperature spike and seem to have everything else under control and the other gecko isn't affected it seems like a possibility.

Fingers crossed the vet can give him something that helps or better yet totally fixes him!!

 

[rothsauce]

It does look like a neurological issue, like he's struggling just to take a few steps. Reminds me of someone who's intoxicated.

Could any kind of vitamin imbalance/intolerance cause something like this?
Perhaps with whatever issue is going on, even though he can't see the other male leo he can smell it, and it could be adding some stress for a slow recovery?

 

[indyana]

Some geckos do develop neurological problems later in life and may be symptom free for even years before displaying the behavior. I realize most people identify that type of problem with Enigmas, but it has popped up in other strains too. I remember it being discussed on a recent Gecko Nation Radio show with SaSoBek Reptiles.

Definitely seek vet treatment and continue troubleshooting, but I thought I would mention it because sudden issues are not always caused by an infection or environmental issue.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

That's a really good point indyana! My fingers are crossed it's something fixable. Such a pretty guy! He's lucky to have an owner that cares so much about him!

 

[ResidualHaunt]

Unfortunately I decided to have him euthanized today...
He was getting worse and both the vet and I decided he was too far gone. She was not a reptile 'specialist' and did suggest one I could go to for a more thorough exam but felt he was in pretty bad shape and suffering and she seemed to know her stuff. I just did not have a good feeling about prolonging it anymore. As heartbroken as I am I do feel better about that decision...

Thank you to everyone who responded and showed compassion toward my little guy. I'm sorry it wasn't a happier or more informative ending But maybe the things said in this thread can help someone else in the future <3

 

[indyana]

So sorry for your loss Despite our best efforts to care for our pets, sometimes things just go wrong. It's a tough decision to make, but when the quality of life has gotten as bad as this, it's the right one.

 

[sausage]

sorry for your loss. you did the right thing.
R.I.P little guy

 

[LepoInc]

My heart is with you; that stuff is haunting


Jared Moore @ Lepo-Gecko