Lethargy in a ~3 Month Old

[TwistedTruth]

About your leo:
- Sex: Female
- Age & Weight: Approximately 3-4 months
- How long have you owned your leo: Since the end of February
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend): Petsmart

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo: three times a week at the minimum, trying for daily contact after washing my hands
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. Yes, she always actively hunts food and lately will eat 5 or less crickets and loose all interest, go back in her hide, and sleep.
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. None that I've noticed.
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal) Regular; smaller poop with urates.
- When was the last time he/she went Looks like yesterday.
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on
A few days of lethargy and loss of interest in food
Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size 10 gallon tank
- Type (ex. glass tank) Glass
- Type of substrate Repticarpet
- Hides, how many, what kind 3; one half log from Petsmart, one plastic rock, and one humid hide out of tubberware
B) Heating
- Heat source UTH
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) hot: 85.6, cool: 77.7
- Method of regulating heat source Just the UTH
- What are you using to measure your temps Digital Thermometer with Probe on both sides
- Do you have any lights (describe) None
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females) None
- Describe health, or previous problems NA

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) Approximately 20-25 crickets, 5 or 5 medium mealworms
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) Mealworms are left in calcium dish, crickets are dropped into tank a few at a time and collected what she doesn't eat.
B) Supplements (describe how often) Calcium in a dish, dusted crickets with vitamin and Calcium plus D3
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) Fluker's Calcium with D3, Herptivite Multivitamins
- What are you gut loading food with Crickets get potatoes, green peppers, and carrots. I've never mastered gutloading mealworms


Additional information
Yesterday I went to the pet store to get my usual amount of weekly crickets. I showed up the DAY BEFORE their next shipment and they had NOTHING left. No mealworms, no waxworms, no appropriately sized crickets. I was left with superworms.
I bought a container of 25.
She ate 5 of them immediately yesterday and then lost all interest.
She hasn't been acting "right" since.

I'm aware this wasn't a particularly "good" or "smart" choice, but I really didn't want her to go without... Especially being so young. I did dust with calcium before feeding. The one she didn't eat, I removed.

Could she still be full?
Were they capable of doing internal damage somehow?
Do I need to add more heat so she can digest them better? Could that be the problem?

 

[LeopardShade]

Superworms are very large, and eating enough of them can cause a food impaction. One of my geckos would have constipation after eating just two, and she was a year old! Five supers for a 3-4 month old is far too much for its small stomach. I'd recommend warm water soaks once a day in water up to the geckos belly (monitor them while in it), keep the gecko hydrated, and keep the heat up and high. I'd also recommend giving a couple drops (1-2) of mineral or olive oil to help lubricate the digestive system. After a couple of days, this worked with my gecko.

Best of luck.

 

[TwistedTruth]

Well, crap, I definitely didn't want that to happen.
Alright! I shall start the soaking and oil regiment tomorrow!

The rest of the supers will be going to my sister's bearded dragons. (Which are what I was used to dealing with. An adult geckos.)

Little ones are new to me.
I'll keep monitoring the heat.

 

[LeopardShade]

Be careful with the oil, don't give too much. It really is the warm water soaks that help. Like I said, just make sure you monitor the gecko at all times when bathing. I accidentally left my gecko alone for about five minutes, came back, and she was gone. Took me about 2 hours to find her, but if only I knew she was about three feet away under a nearly impossible-to-find hiding spot. From now on, I always watch her.

Literally, I was completely overthinking it. I remember thinking she had flopped down the stairs or something XD

 

[TwistedTruth]

Haha, I always monitored my adults because I had two cats. ^_^; Definitely didn't want anything to happen there. But no cats here, but I'll still be watching just in case she decides to jump.

I'm not exactly sure how much oil to give then. Hmmm... I'll just do a tiny drop or two, considering how small she is...

Leos are like ninjas! My female (adult) escaped for an entire week once! I was so freaked out, I tore my parents house apart... My dad tried to convince me the cat had ate her. I didn't think so. I found her a two feet away in a pile of blankets. ;_; Terrifying.

 

[LeopardShade]

That's exactly what happened to me. I looked all over the house, in every hiding place possible, and she was really only three feet away..

One drop should be good for a 3-4 month old. If that doesn't help in about 3-4 days, I'd give her one more. But like I said, don't overdo it with the oil.

 

[TwistedTruth]

Yeah, don't need to completely purge her, I've done enough damage so far.

She pooped this morning and is active in her bath right now. However unwilling she is for it. =P

 

[LeopardShade]

Fecal matter is a great sign. It means she is digesting the food, no matter how hard it is. Just keep up the warm water soaks. Has she eaten or shown any signs of appetite?

 

[roger]

About your leo:
- Sex: Female
- Age & Weight: Approximately 3-4 months
- How long have you owned your leo: Since the end of February
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend): Petsmart

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo: three times a week at the minimum, trying for daily contact after washing my hands
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. Yes, she always actively hunts food and lately will eat 5 or less crickets and loose all interest, go back in her hide, and sleep.
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. None that I've noticed.
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal) Regular; smaller poop with urates.
- When was the last time he/she went Looks like yesterday.
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on
A few days of lethargy and loss of interest in food
Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size 10 gallon tank
- Type (ex. glass tank) Glass
- Type of substrate Repticarpet
- Hides, how many, what kind 3; one half log from Petsmart, one plastic rock, and one humid hide out of tubberware
B) Heating
- Heat source UTH
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) hot: 85.6, cool: 77.7
- Method of regulating heat source Just the UTH
- What are you using to measure your temps Digital Thermometer with Probe on both sides
- Do you have any lights (describe) None
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females) None
- Describe health, or previous problems NA

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) Approximately 20-25 crickets, 5 or 5 medium mealworms
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) Mealworms are left in calcium dish, crickets are dropped into tank a few at a time and collected what she doesn't eat.
B) Supplements (describe how often) Calcium in a dish, dusted crickets with vitamin and Calcium plus D3
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) Fluker's Calcium with D3, Herptivite Multivitamins
- What are you gut loading food with Crickets get potatoes, green peppers, and carrots. I've never mastered gutloading mealworms


Additional information
Yesterday I went to the pet store to get my usual amount of weekly crickets. I showed up the DAY BEFORE their next shipment and they had NOTHING left. No mealworms, no waxworms, no appropriately sized crickets. I was left with superworms.
I bought a container of 25.
She ate 5 of them immediately yesterday and then lost all interest.
She hasn't been acting "right" since.

I'm aware this wasn't a particularly "good" or "smart" choice, but I really didn't want her to go without... Especially being so young. I did dust with calcium before feeding. The one she didn't eat, I removed.

Could she still be full?
Were they capable of doing internal damage somehow?
Do I need to add more heat so she can digest them better? Could that be the problem?

A 3-4 month old does NOT get impacted from eating superworms.if 4-5 superworms would have been too much it would have regurgitated them all.The problem IMO is that your warm end is too cool.Should be between 88-95 degrees on the warm end.Your leo is not digesting when your warm end is not warm enough.Bump up your heat and you'll notice a big difference with metabolism

 

[ElapidSVT]

yeah, definitely want to have that hot spot at about 90F
i give one superworm a day for every 10g of the animal's weight. never had anything get impacted from eating superworms either. my feeling is that if an animal eats as much as it wants and doesn't regurgitate, it's just fine.

good luck!

 

[roger]

yeah, definitely want to have that hot spot at about 90F
i give one superworm a day for every 10g of the animal's weight. never had anything get impacted from eating superworms either. my feeling is that if an animal eats as much as it wants and doesn't regurgitate, it's just fine.

good luck!

Ive even given my hatchlings freshly molten superworms with no problem.They are soft and chewy.

 

[TwistedTruth]

I have a lamp at home I can attach to it and get the temperature's raised tomorrow.

I shall continue the soaking for water consumption anyway and get the temperatures raised and come back to report my findings in about two days of this. =)
Thanks for all the help!

 

[ElapidSVT]

putting a lamp on a leopard gecko cage will stress the animal out and probably make it stop eating.
leos are nocturnal and don't like light.

undertank heat is what it needs.

 

[TwistedTruth]

I've done the overhead bulb on 10-12 hour intervals with no negative effects, but should I just get a bigger (~20 gallon) UTH?

 

[LeopardShade]

A 3-4 month old does NOT get impacted from eating superworms.if 4-5 superworms would have been too much it would have regurgitated them all.The problem IMO is that your warm end is too cool.Should be between 88-95 degrees on the warm end.Your leo is not digesting when your warm end is not warm enough.Bump up your heat and you'll notice a big difference with metabolism

While I do agree with what you say about raising the heat, that could be a big part of the problem, but I'm also not wrong with what I say. Think about it. A leopard gecko's stomach is about the size of the space between their eyes. I don't even know if, a 3-4 months old, a superworm would be smaller than that space. Imagine four or five.
Maybe it's just my gecko. She would eat two, at one year old, and have horrible constipation problems. Her heat was fine as well, in fact that was the first thing that I checked, it was at 90F around the clock.

 

[roger]

While I do agree with what you say about raising the heat, that could be a big part of the problem, but I'm also not wrong with what I say. Think about it. A leopard gecko's stomach is about the size of the space between their eyes. I don't even know if, a 3-4 months old, a superworm would be smaller than that space. Imagine four or five.
Maybe it's just my gecko. She would eat two, at one year old, and have horrible constipation problems. Her heat was fine as well, in fact that was the first thing that I checked, it was at 90F around the clock.

Ive juvies for over 25 yrs and my 3-5 month olds eat 4 superworms with no problems.Ive never heard or experienced my leos to have food impaction.Ive even fed 1 month old freshly molted supers with no problems.My 4 month juvies would eat 4 supers no problem.If a juvies prey is too big too handle the animal would regurgitate them.so now the owner is paranoid and doesnt feed his leo supers because u gave him what i believe to be wrong info instead of feeding supers to be included in a healthy combo diet..A juvie needs a well rounded diet of crickets,supers ,and gutloaded mealies

 

[RampantReptiles]

While I do agree with what you say about raising the heat, that could be a big part of the problem, but I'm also not wrong with what I say. Think about it. A leopard gecko's stomach is about the size of the space between their eyes. I don't even know if, a 3-4 months old, a superworm would be smaller than that space. Imagine four or five.
Maybe it's just my gecko. She would eat two, at one year old, and have horrible constipation problems. Her heat was fine as well, in fact that was the first thing that I checked, it was at 90F around the clock.

I believe the reference of feeding a gecko something that is the same or smaller than the space between their eyes doesnt have anything to do with stomach size. It has to do with feeding prey that a lizard wont choke on. But honestly its rather flexible like many other people I feed super worms to my leopard geckos and a super worm is like twice the size of that distance. The fact that super worms are relatively soft bodied (aside from the chitin exoskeleton) is part of the reason that a gecko can safely ingest them.

 

[LeopardShade]

Maybe it is just my gecko that has trouble with superworms, which is why I don't feed them. One cannot say that, while my diagnosis of the gecko's problem may be wrong, that I am giving incorrect treatment information, though. What the asker describes seems to be a problem with her gecko digesting its food, and while raising the heat could work wonders, warm water soaks and good hydration will work as well.

I had no intentions of making the owner "paranoid" and I am not advising that she stops feeding supers. They are a great, nutritious feeder insect. I apologize if anything I said caused a problem, I didn't intend to.

 

[TwistedTruth]

I'm not paranoid, per say... I've always had adults and rescues, so I'm used to feeding supers to adults. Babies are obviously quite a bit different.