mbd treatment?

[Geckos42]

Hey guys.

Firstly, I want to say sorry if this thread doesn't belong here. The administrative team can feel free to move it if they feel it appropriate.

Before I fill out the form, I just want to say that this is my sister's gecko, but she's gone way too long without trying to find a solution to a problem concerning his health, in which I will elaborate more clearly in a later paragraph.


About your leo:
- Sex Male
- Age & Weight about 1 3/4 years, weight unknown
- How long have you owned your leo My sister has owned him for about a year and a half
- Where was he/she obtained (ex. Pet store, breeder, wild caught, friend) Petsmart

A) Health/History
- How often do you handle your leo She doesn't handle him too often, since he started showing signs of mbd
- Is your leo acting any different today? If so how does he/she normally act which differs from now. He's very lethargic, but that's been normal for him lately
- Has he/she had any problems in the past, if so please describe. I am fairly positive he has mbd, and he seems to have much diffeculty shedding
B) Fecals
- Describe (look any different than normal) normal
- When was the last time he/she went going normally as far as I know
C) Problem
- Please briefly describe the problem and how long it has been going on mbd - the symptoms have been existant around... 6 months, but it's getting severe.

Housing:
A) Enclosure
- Size 10 gallon tank
- Type (ex. glass tank) glass tank
- Type of substrate Tile
- Hides, how many, what kind hollowed half log (from Petsmart)
B) Heating
- Heat source 8W heat pad when needed
- Cage temps (hot side, cool side) 80-85*F
- Method of regulating heat source Room temperatures stay at a fairly consistant 82*F day and night
- What are you using to measure your temps Room thermometer in the summer
- Do you have any lights (describe) No in tank lightning or heat lamps
C) Cage mates
- How many (males, females) none
- Describe health, or previous problems current problems include mbd and shedding difficulties

Describe Diet:
A) Typical diet
- What you're feeding (how often, how much) Unfortunately just mealworms - 3 times weekly - usually 2-3 per feeding
- How are you feeding (hand fed, left in dish, ect) Up until lately, mealworms were allowed to free-roam while attended, but lately he's been too lethargic and has to be hand fed
B) Supplements (describe how often)
- What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) Sadly... none.
- What are you gut loading food with Mealworms just eat oat media, they aren't gut-fed

Ok, you can clearly see she has some gecko keeping issues. Here are some of the problems she's had.

Firstly, neither she nor I (I have a pacman frog) have been able to successfully culture crickets. While Pacman Frogs are fine with calcium/multivitamin dusted Nightcrawlers (that don't contain pesticides, dyes, or chemicals), Leopard Geckos aren't able to use these as a staple. ALL Lenny (her gecko with mbd) eats is undusted, ungut-loaded mealworms. That's it. This has been going on waaaaaay too long.

She needs a food solution. I don't know what leos can eat as a staple that can be dusted other than crickets. I'm not sure about commercial gecko foods or anything of that sort. I've also heard of a calcium "drink" for geckos, but I have no idea how that would work either. I would really appreciate some advice setting up a new dietary strategy.

Also, Lenny is extremely deficient in calcium. It's getting to the point where he *has* to be hand fed. He's become very lethargic (doesn't move all day and night unless prompted or occasionally but not everyday, to get some water). When he moves, he scoots on his belly. He looks abnormally thin to me, and he also has a little bit of flabby skin on either sides of his belly. He also seems to be kind of "out of it", as in, he walks around looking clueless, wavy his head back and forth and walking in circles (clockwise and counterclockwise). I don't know why it is that he doesn't seem to be as friendly or intelligent as he used to be, is that from the nutritional deficientcy?

I know a lot of people are using injections, to which I've heard good and bad things. The problem with that is, is that we don't have a vet within 70 miles of here, nor are any clinic's located anywhere near anywhere we typically travel to. We are both still students, and I (being the older of us) don't quite drive yet, and our mom isn't about to drive 70 miles to a chaotic city for a checkup and then pay the astronomical bill, if you understand me. With that option down, is there some kind of D.I.Y. injection technique? A youtube video I could watch, or a vet site with a tutorial? Is there a liquid solution she could put in his water dish? Lenny needs some kind of mass source of calcium pretty soon here, I should think. I'm just clueless on where to begin with that sort of thing.

I just don't know what to do. I've sort of been giving advice from the sidelines, but I have let this go too far. She knows it's bad, but she hasn't taken a stand to try to find a solution, so that is what I'm doing. I apologise for the long thread, but I feel it's important for you all to understand how he's behaving. I would really appreciate any advice or tips that you guys can offer!

Thanks so much!

 

[HolAdiosXblue]

if you want him to get better he needs an established diet of gut loaded crickets and meal worms... and i also heard you can feed them baby food??? i dont know try to experiment but nothing too drastic for the poor fella...

 

[Geckos42]

I've heard the same thing about baby food, but then I've also heard that baby food is bad because geckos frequently get addicted to the sugar that's in it. I'm curious to find out what others will say about that.

Honestly, though, is there no alternative to crickets (other than dubia roaches, my mom disapproves)? Me and my sister have both failed dozens of times culturing crickets. They always die. I've read guides, articles, all kinds of things. My Pacman Frog lives in a tank with 75-80% humidity, and I still fail to keep crickets moist enough to breed.

 

[sausage]

Sorry to hear shes ill, I am afraid if she has got this bad the only thing you can do is take her to a vet ASAP.
If you can afford the vet, you can afford the pet to be honest.

I noticed that in the heating section it says "8w heat mat when needed" dose that mean you only put it on some times? because that Leo needs it ALL the time other wise it cannot digest its food properly.

Are you sure it has MBD and not starving to death?

Feeding leos meal worms as a stable diet is acceptable however they need to be gut loaded.
gut loading is easy peasy all you need to do is feed the food the night before you feed the leo. (would be nice to feed the feeder insects all the time.)

to gut load you can feed them on things you eat like:

~ Salad. (NO SPINACH, its toxic to geckos or so iv herd and no lettice, it makes the meal worms wee a lot and they get stinky)
~ Cerials. (rice crispys, all bran, muesli, cornflakes, shreddies. abviously nothing coated in chocolate or suger)
~ Fruit (NO CITRUS fruit)
~ Veg/ peelings (carrots, peas ect ect. use organic or just thoroughly wash before hand)

there are so many things you can feed them on and sprinkle the calcium onto the food they are eating.

Leos can also eat crickets and locust. wax worms as a treat.
Baby food is not acceptable to be feeding a leo, a crested gecko yes.

If your desperate to get some calcium into her mix a small amount of water with the calcium powder and syringe it to her slowly.

But she needs to see a vet pronto!

 

[mango+cola]

You should post a picture so we can actually see whats wrong with him. Like said above, he could just be starving to death, your sister isnt feeding him nearly enough food. 6-9 mealworms every week is not enough. While growing my gecko ate up to 25 mealworms per night! Also as said above that heat pad needs to be on all the time, they need the belly heat to properly digest food. The temperature on the floor of the hot side should be in the low 90's. Get a scale so you can monitor her weight. We cant tell you what is an acceptable weight because all geckos are different, you just need to monitor the weight gain. From what I gather from the description he only has one hide, he needs 3, one on the hot side, one on the cool side and one is a humid hide to aid with shedding(also on the warm side, fill the hide with moist paper towel to create humidity). Also, put a calcium dish in the tank at all times so he can take as much calcium as he needs. As for the mealworms, you can feed mealworms as a staple diet, thats all my two geckos eat. But you need to gut load, 24 hrs before feeding, take out some mealworms, put them in a tub with oats and some fruit or vegetables. then when you are ready to feed you need to dust the mealworms with a multivitamin, I use nekton rep. When my gecko doesnt eat we make sure she still gets all her vitamins by adding water to the powder and letting her lick it from the syringe, apparently the taste of nekton rep is very appealing to geckos.

 

[Geckos42]

You guys have been extremely helpful! I really appreciate the advice!!

I used to know a lot of those things like the 3 hide rule, but I completely forgot about those guidelines. It's been so long since I've actually looked into gecko care. Hopefully I can make a trip to the pet store, and we can pick up some hides, mealworms, and I'll see if they have that brand of powder.

I'll ask my sister to plug in the heaters. Just to be clear, the UTH stays on 24/7? The room stays a consistent 82*F, but I guess that's just fine. It only covers one side of the bottom of the tank.

As much as I would like to take her geckos to the vet, that isn't an option for us. I'm hopeful that their health will improve with better treatment, however. You guys have given great suggestions.

I may be able to get a picture and give his weight. I do believe that we have a postage scale somewhere at my house. Once again, I really appreciate the advice! This will be a major turning point for her geckos, I'll make sure.

 

[sausage]

yes the heat pad must stay on 24/7.
Up the food given every day and i hope all gets better, it so sad to think its suffering
keep us updated

 

[mango+cola]

Ive never seen nekton rep at the petstores, we buy it straight from my vet as he suggested that as a supplement for our gecko. The thing I like about nekton rep is our gecko really likes the taste of it, which makes it easy when she needs liquidized vitamins because she doesnt make a fuss.

The heat pad should take up roughly 1/3rd of the tank. Try to post the pictures, then we will be able to see if there are any other problems, or if your diagnosis was likely correct.

 

[LeoparddGeckoss]

He needs to see a vet ASAP.

I am fairly positive he has mbd, and he seems to have much diffeculty shedding.
- He needs a humid hide to help him shed. You need at least three hides. You said you only have one. You need two regular reptile hides and one humid hide.

Heat source 8W heat pad when needed
- Only when needed? It needs to be on all day and night.

Cage temps (hot side, cool side) 80-85*F
- The warm side needs to be 88-95F and the cool side needs to be 75-77F. You need a thermostat to control the heat pad. I recommend Zoo Med's Thermostat; it's pretty cheap.

What are you using to measure your temps Room thermometer in the summer
- You need a temp. gun or two digital thermometers with probes.

What vitamin/minerals are you using (list brands) Sadly... none.
- You need three; Calcium with D3, Calcium without D3, and a multivitamin. Dust with D3 and a mulitvitamin once a week. Have a dish of calcium without D3 in the enclosure at all times.

What are you gut loading food with Mealworms just eat oat media, they aren't gut-fed
- You need to gut-load. Use carrots, apples, oatmeal, etc. Gut-load for at least 12-24 hours.